Still Won't Start

I know that someone here explained to me how to check for ignition spark before, but I can not seem to find that post. Can someone walk me through it again? I think it was pulling a wire (any wire?) and putting an old spark plug in it (don't have one but I can buy a plug) and then holding the plug near the fire wall or other metal part of the car. Have someone crank the engine and see if it sparks. Am I right?

Thanks and take care, Sharon

and ...........

I guess I misunderstood all of this and went one step too far. With the following configuration, what would I ground to the car? I have to assume that the yellow to orange is the 'always on' connection, yet with it opening and closing, that doesn't sound right to me. It is the yellow wire that is always hot. Could you tell me what wire here is the ground side of the primary circuit? And is the orange to hot green the secondary circuit? I thought it was, and you say about to jumper it. I guess I am wrong on this, but I sure don't want to screw things up. Can you or someone else please tell me how to do the test that you describe above test of the operation of the circuit, by including the colors of the wires in the description? Thanks for being patient. I am hoping I didn't screw anything up.: Fuse Link ! ! yellow - always hot ! !---------------------------------------! ! ! ! ! / !-----! ! ! / ! ! ! ______!_________________!____!_! ! ! ! orange tan/lt grn red (to inertia switch)

Please don't conect +12 volts directly to the tan/lt grn wire. Doing that may blow out the computer that wire is what turns the relay on and off. The computer (ECA) switches the tan/lt grn wire to ground to turn on the relay that turns on the fuel pump. Stan

You just confirmed that the secondary ( fuel pump ) circuit is good.

Not really a good idea. You are sending 12 volts to the primary ground circuit, remember the ground is made by the ECM. You can potentially damage the transistor.

Fuel flow is from the tank through the pump through the filter through the fuel rail to the regulator. The fuel pump has enough flow that with no open injectors will produce about 80 psi, which is enough pressure to open the regulator, so the excess fuel goes back to the tank. The regulator will hold the pressure to about 40 psi. You are not flooding anything.

You are kind of going about this in not so a good way. Jumping the secondary circuit to make the fuel pump run was ok, I've done it as a down and dirty way to make a fast check. The primary circuit on the other hand is a different story. You need to check that it has power when the key is in the run position. Then check the see if the processor is making ground with a meter so that you do not harm the transistor that makes the ground.

Did you not say you have a schematic? The circuit is the same from about 1980 to

What I said is that I have several schematics and none of them actually match my car 100%. I have no idea why. My car should match, as you said,

1980 to 1991, but it does not, at all. I picked up a 1992 Chilton's schematic, and that is closer, but still no cigar. Tough to figure things out. The pic I have been showing you matches (at least) the fuel pump relay wiring exactly. I went to the parts store yesterday to check to see if they had a fuel pump relay socket for my car (in case that is what it is). The guy came back with one that not only does not match in wire color, but does not match the wires in gauge either. He said that it is exactly what my car is supposed to have. I am not sure if my engine has been replaced, or the wiring for the relays has been replaced, or what.

Thomas, please bear with me and answer these questions so that I can find out if it is the fuel pump relay (or wiring socket) or not. Here is the updated pic, showing where the coil is ($):

fusible link ! ! yellow - always hot \/ !---------------------------------------! ! ! ! ! / !-----! ! ! / $ ! ! ! / $ ! ! ______!_________________!____!_! ! ! ! \/ ! ! orange tan/lt grn red (to inertia switch) (goes to or comes from EEC test connector and electronic control assembly)

No direction is shown for the primary (coil) side of this wiring diagram. So, I cannot tell which wire is ground. And I have no idea the origin of the red wire. You told me to first jump the grounding wire of the primary circuit to ground and crank the engine. I don't know if the ground is the red wire or the tan/lt grn one. Could you tell me? Should I have the positive battery terminal hooked up for this? Should I have the secondary line 'jumped' for this (keep in mind that the fuel pump runs constantly if I jump this AND hook up the positive battery side)? And can you tell me what I can expect to happen if that is okay? Will it crank, click? Or, should I be checking for voltage?

Then you told me to put a jumper wire across the secondary connection (in this case, yellow to orange) and try to crank over the engine. Is that with the jumper wire still in the primary grounding wire? Or with a wire jumping across the incoming and outgoing sockets of the primary connection? I am assuming that the positive side of the battery terminal has to be hooked up for this, but I am concerned that if I jump that wire the pump will just constantly run since the yellow wire is an 'always hot' line.

I really do appreciate your help, and I can understand if you are getting a little 'worn out' by all of my stupid questions and actions. This is my first fuel injected car. Everything I have owned before this has been carburated. All this computerized stuff required for fuel injection, with it's extensive wiring, is a little confusing for me. I worked with my husband on our automobiles, but since he passed away 8 years ago; I have worked on them alone. I have tested and replaced relays before, but I had a good matching schematic to go by and a husband to stand next to me to make sure I wasn't screwing up (and vice/versa).

Thank you, and take care, Sharon

You may have just answered one of my questions. Then the tan/lt grn wire is the ground wire for the primary circuit??? Take Care, Sharon

Stan thanks for the advice. I have everything hooked back up (relay in place also). I probed the socket for the tan/lt grn wire (making sure I was hitting the metal on the contact). I had the multimeter set to 10, so it should register 12 volts. I turned the car to RUN, did not crank. Nothing registered. It never moved. Even tried breaking the insulation and putting the multimeter probe inside the wire, hoping for a good contact. Same thing, turned the key and all I got was 'flatline'. I know the multimeter is working, because I came in and tested it on a battery, read fine.

You called it the ECA, or computer. Is this the same part as the ECM, ECC module, EEC module, electronic spark control module, TFI, just plain control module (per AutoZone), and God knows how many other names? This is getting real confusing because of all of these names. In any event, do you know what it means if it is flatlining? And thank you for trying to help me.

Take Care, Sharon

That is how the computer turns the fuel pump on and off. When the computer wants the fuel pump to run it grounds the tan/lt grn wire. That is how the fuel pump is turned on and off .

Hook a volt meter to the tan/lt grn wire with the relay installed and turn the key to run not start . You should read near 0 volts for about 5 seconds then jump up to about 12 volts.

If the tan/lt grn wire always has 12 volts with the key set to run then the computer is not turning on the fuel pump. Stan

Do you have 12 volts on the red wire with the key set to run? Make sure that you have 12 volts at the red wire conector in the relay socket.

Yes it's all in the same box under the dash I just call it the computer most of the time.

Stan

Jumper the orange and yellow wire ( secondary ), crank the engine, does it run and keep running? If no tell me. If yes, put the relay back in. Probe the tan wire with the key in run, do you have 12 volts yes or no? If no, probe the red wire with the key in run do you have 12 volts yes or no? I'll assume yes by your posts the relay coil is open replace relay. Probe the tan wire with the key in run, do you have 12 volts yes or no? If yes crank the engine does the voltage fall to 0 volts? If yes the ECM is making ground and the circuit is ok. I do not want to here "flat line" I want to know voltage numbers. Leave the battery cables installed on the battery, the car will not run with them not installed. Also you voltage readings will be wrong.