I own a 2001 F-350 with a V-10. I use it as an every day driver, and quite often approx about 10 times a month pull rather heavy trailers. I am wanting to know if there are viable products that actually helps fuel economy atleast when its a daily driver, and maybe during pulling situations aswell.
What axle ratio do you have, is it SRW or DRW, stock of aftermarket oversized tires (tread design too) and how heavy is trailer you pull?
----------------- TheSnoMan.com
There aren't too many things you can do to improve you mileage, driving habits will garner the greatest improvement. Ford used to have (early EFI days, mid 80's - mid 90's) restrictive air intake systems, there is much less room for improvement in that area now... Most things sold are simply snake oil, all hype and no improvement...
That is exactly why people pay $5000 extra for their Turbo Diesels, huge fuel mileage improvement, and more power. :-)
I went from 12mpg empty on the highway and as low as 5.5-8 mpg towing with a single rear wheel, 4.10 gear 4x4 super cab in my LAST gas Ford. The new 10,000 pound F-450 turbo diesel, dual rear wheel 4.30 geared 4X4 crew cab, gets 16.5-17.2 empty (under 1-ton of crap on the truck) on the highway under 60mph and 14.5 over 60-75 mpg, towing depending on trailer weight and speed, it gets 9.5-13mpg.
I'm pushing 30,000 miles and my fuel mileage keeps creeping up, Well worth the investment to me.
Good Luck
There is nothing that a stock PS will pull that a v10 will not pull properly geared and even if it uses more fuel the PS will NEVER pay for itself in fuel savings because of the 5K plus option cost, increased mantainance costs and now more expensive fuel. BTW, they are forcasting deisel fuel to hit $3.50 to $4.00/gallon this winter if it is cold and heating oil demand rises as base stocks are low and demand is up so where is the money savings??? Also here today, regular can be had for 2.25 and plus for 2.35 a gallon and diesel is still 2.98 so again what would I be saving with a oil burner today? Nothing.
----------------- TheSnoMan.com
That is the same stupid shit every Get back to us when you have a clue what the hell you are talking about.
You'd eat those words at any kind of elevation. Yep, all those trucks and motorhomes I passed on the Pennsylvania turnpike last summer were "geared wrong."
The $5000 is easily recouped at trade in.
Hey numb-nuts, are you aware that spark plug changes on Ford V engines can run in the thousands of dollars when the plug seizes in the head due to the bonehead design? If you were a real mechanic, you'd be well aware of this...
Maybe he doesn't live in your town.
There is no elevation to speak off on turn pike in PA. A Ford pickup with stock tires and a 4.30 axle ratio with pull anything that a 6.0 PS will and with a lot less noise and fuss. About 4 months ago I was out on highway doing 75 to 80 in my stock (except for speed limter removed with a HyperTech tuner)) and with stock tires too 2000 K3500 SRW (except for speed limter removed) and came on a new tricked up PS with loud exhaust. The road was clear and he nailed it to show off and much against my nature, I did to with my little old 5.7 that I have always used at least 89 octane in in winter and 93 in summer. I stayed right with him and then easily passed him around 105 because his PS was wound out, I was not impressed. Years ago when I used to work with guys that ran the computer show circuits (I would whole sale from them) they used to travel 1000 miles round trips on weekends with big trailer and the hard core guys dumped the oil burner because they found that runnin 80 and better that big block trucks could walk away from them towing and get about same MPG doing it too. (about 6 to 7). The oil burner did better if speed was held up 65 or 70 but at 85 and above late at night they sucked on power and MPG with big cargo trailers.
In your dreams, they are begging people to by them here as there is not shortage of them new or used
Got o name call huh next you will tell me than 12 to 14 quarts of diesle oil and filter costs less to service and sprak plugs gee they can go 50K or more today and are not a factor in cost becuase you can change them fro a lot less than the price of a oil change in a oil burner. ALso the plugs siezed in some fords because of wrong torque sp[eak and plug design, not because it was a gas engine and you might pay 1000.s of dollars to fix one but a good tech could install a helicoil in the hole and have you back in bussness quickly and for under 100 bucks too.
And maybe he does not live in yours either but desile is trading on futures market for 205 richt now and it sell for about 65 to 85 more than that depending on your area and gas is trading at 1.75 and ad 40 to 55 cents to that plud historically heating oil/diesel fuel will only increase in price from now until feb or so. and if it is a cold winter, you will be crying filling up the oil burnerat 4 buck a gallon while gas is 2.50 or so. .
----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Diesel is already $3.51/gal in Seattle area. Regular just went down to $2.87/gal. I. Care Address fake until the SPAM goes away ;-}
Well, dude, looks like you lost control of your thread. Sorry about that.
Really? I must have imagined those inclines where my stock 180 horsepower Cummins was running down wheezer gas trucks, Mustangs, Camaros, etc.
What have you ever pulled besides everyones leg?
From the Department of Redundancy Department.
When did the subject turn to drag racing? Well, it's good to know that you're a menace to others besides the flammables you use in your air conditioning system.
Sounds like a lack of time management. Also sounds like a crock of bullshit. October 2004, myself and two others are pulling a 40' enclosed car hauler with a $250K Plymouth Superbird to the Talladega Speedway for the Aerowarriors reunion, pull truck is a 2003 7.3 Powerstroke w/ Banks turbo kit and chip, cruising at 80 MPH the whole way the truck easily got 13 MPG no matter what speed we were at.
Then they're all as stupid as you. Around here, a Diesel stays on the lot for two maybe three days tops. The guy that bought my 97 Dodge back in June didn't even want to haggle price (the first words out of his mouth after he test drove it).
Um SnoJob, you are thinking of the OLD Ford spark plug problem. They got a whole new one because of the redesign of the plugs. Now instead of them coming out on their own, you have to pull the heads (remove cab if so inclined) and beat them out with a hammer and punch. This has all been long ago documented in repair industry circles. You don't even want to get into the repeat coil on plug failures that plague the Ford gas engines. And as for your precious Chevies, last time I checked, the proper AC Delco plugs for them were $12-$14 each, so two spark plugs cost as much as the 11 quarts of oil my Cummins holds.
Just proves that you only understand price, not value. I really don't care if any fuel hits $4.00 a gallon. I earn enough to make it a non issue, and as a mechanic, the higher the price of fuel, the more tune up business I get.
I'll let you in on a little secret;
if you think that $1.50 is a lot of money, you always will.
Diesel is 3.05 here, gas is 2.87.
If the Diesel gets 30% better fuel economy, which is the smarter choice?
Ever driven the PA turnpike? Elevation approaches 3,500 feet in some areas, according to my GPS. It an't the Rockies but it ain't Kansas, either.
There is nothing that a stock 6 liter Powerstroke Turbo Diesel will pull that a half ton with a 4.6 will not pull either, so what? My 34 horsepower Kubota tractor can and does pull my full 12,000 pound goose neck horse trailer too... Until you have directly compared the absolute stark difference, you will never know how silly your statements sound.
By the time you gear the V-10 to pull like the Powerstroke Turbo Diesel, you will be getting about half the fuel mileage it got originally, under half the mileage the diesel gets doing the same work.
While you are wheezing up to the top of Poncha pass (elevation 9010 feet above sea level) or Milner Pass (elevation 10,758 feet) with less than 140 HP instead of your sea level 362 HP, and less than 177 Torque instead of
457, get back to me and explain how much better that is for towing than the 325 HP & 570 TQ the Powerstroke Turbo Diesel gets anywhere on the planet, and explain what a great value your less power and mileage truly is...Every time I FLY over a 6,000 or 7,000 foot pass with 12,000 pound trailer in tow, in 6th gear (overdrive/manual transmission) with cruse control on, I know without a doubt my old gasser couldn't hold a candle to this new drivetrain. That to me is worth every penny of the slight overall difference in price...
Again you spew your misinformed BS, SnoMan. All the new pickup trucks have a computer speed limiter. Fords is at 95 miles per hour. For $200 you can buy the speed eliminator. With that installed, the Ford 6 liter Powerstroke Turbo Diesel with 4.30 gears can go 120 miles per hour with plenty engine to spare...
You really need to learn what the hell you are talking about before you start spewing your BS.
The only magic here is the thick headness of some to refuse to properly gear their engine type to the load because a gas engine would climb just as fast if it was geared properly and a big block would walk away from it if properly gered. Back in 03 in CO when on vaction in some real mountain I cam on a truck with a big 5th wheel camper passing everything in site. It was doing about 80 when I caught and passed it and it was a V10 Dodge.
Been towing for over 30 year and used to hual 23K plus grain trailer over 25 years ago with gas P/U's and power was not a issue either as they were geared properly.
From your department on BS. Oil burners get real upset when threatened
THe menance it you not me and I guess they are all menaces in austrailia because "flamable" refrigerants are the rage down there where EPA and Dupont has no clout, not poisonous ones.
NO time management issues at all, you have x number of hours to work with period. Their trailers where a lot heaiver that yours too and your 13 MPG at 80 is likely a lie too. BTW, oil burner need a lot of boost to make any power at all and a really big NOx polluters (this will change in 08 with ne regs they will limit there performance and boosts) with your truck make the NOx of about 10 gas P/U's. Plus if you put a mild boost on a big pblock gas motor you would get HP they you could only dream about with your oil burner and a wide RPM range to use it with too unlike your narrow one that get narrower the more you boost it.
No look in the mirror as only a fool would pay 5K more thinking that it will be cheaper in long run (it never will be) when fuel cost more and will always cost more and it is going up another 8 to 15 cents independant of market pressure due to costs for removing sulpher
There is no problem with aluminun heads is plugs and heads are designe right. If there are not or not properly torqued but inept mech there cam be problem because there on millions of engines out there with aluminum heads without a ford label that have more plug problems. Also you must by your plugs at Joe's ripp offs because I pay about 2 bucks of so a piece for my name brand ones here.
No price is value. It ell you take it is not a good choice for a fuel in future if you are looking to controll costs and when NOx emissions kick in and 08. oil burner are going to have to start toeing the line because they have been basically unregulated for years in this regard while gas engine have not. If gas motor had the same lack regs as oil burners they would be some real beasts today. BTW the EPA has stated that diesel are the leading cause of polluton for transportation without doubt hence the rule change. When feild is leveled in regards to emissions, the diesle will cost more and loose performance and luster and with it appeal too.
----------------- TheSnoMan.com
You can improve fuel mileage without any acessories. Accelerate slower off the line. Drive closer to the speed limit. Check for proper tire inflation. Remove any unecessary objects from the vehicle that might increase weight significantly. Consolidate trips. If you do a lot of driving that does not require a truck, it may be worthwile to get a used econobox for daily driving. John
Bad analogy. Elevations in western Kansas are over 4,000 feet. Elevation is meaningless in this discusion. Elevation changes over a short distance are what matters.
After reading through the whole thread, all I can say is don't sweat it SnoMan. I'm on your side on this one.
If a person does a lot of heavy towing, then a diesel does make sense. They do have more torque and get better mileage under heavy load.
I think a lot of folks who own diesel trucks just "have to justify them", and bring up the same old arguments time and time again.
"Oh, you recoup the extra $5K at trade in time". Well, that is certainly true in the early years. But, not everyone is going to trade trucks frequently, so basically that $5K is tied up until then. Would the extra money be better off invested somewhere? And you would aslo save on extra finance charges. This arguement doesn't work for everyone.
"I get 17 mpg vs 10 with the gas engine." True. And here in WA gas is 30 to 50 cents a gallon cheaper than diesel. Plus I saved $5K by not buying the diesel, so I have more money to save on gas, (over time that I don't have to pay finance charges on). Certainly at some point the diesel may pay for itself, but at how many miles? (In my case, it would be long after I have retired this truck.)
"A diesel engine will run 300K before needing a rebuild". Sure. Maybe. Let's say it will. What shape is the rest of the truck in at
300K? Until just the last few years, (automatic) transmissions certainly wouldn't last behind the diesel engines. That would be a major expense. I've got 100K on my V-10 and it is running well. I certainly expect to run it another 50K, and I know folks have pushed the modular engines past 200K. If I were going to keep my truck forever, it would certainly be cheaper for me to buy a remanufactured V-10 over a Powerstroke."V-10s blow spark plugs". Sadly that is true. Not all of them, but enough to where I wish Ford would fess up to the problem. But it isn't the end of the world. Heli-coils are out, but there is a company that makes an insert that is a good, dependable fix. Yes, your local Ford dealer will try and sell you a new head instead, but it is up to the owner to know better. Supposedly this issue was fixed in the last couple of years. And for the record, the 6.0L Powerstroke has had its share of "issues".
And as SnoMan already stated, maintenance costs are significantly higher on a diesel engine, (if for no other reason than the many more quarts of oil they use!)
As to the original posters question, save your money and keep a light foot on the gas. You will be hard pressed to find any product to improve your mileage that will recoup the cost of purchase.
Diesel owners, feel free to flame away. I'm comfortable with my position and my truck. Thanks for asking!
Matt
99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4
Right. According to you, all it takes to compensate for the reduced air density is a different set of gears. Volumetric efficiency problem? Just put in the right gears according to the Snoblower.
If the Dodge was "passing everything in site(sic)" how is it that you "cam upon it?" How is it that you think your silly little stories trump the real world experiences related by myself and many others who have owned both gas and diesel not just in this newsgroup but every other group you spout your BS in? Going to Pennsylvania last year, there were three of us convoying, all three trailering MoPar e-bodies, my 97 12 valve Cummins, Mike in his 99 24 valve Cummins and Kevin in his 2000
360 gasser. The gasser was always the first to stop for fuel, we all had 35 gallon tanks that were filled at the same time before we left, the gasser is on fumes, my 12 valve still has 1/2 tank and Mikes 24 valve still had 1/3 tank. Yeah,yeah, gearing is all Kevin needed to get that gasser to hang with the oilers. Sure thing Santa Claus! I guess that everywhere you've been, it all been down hill.Yup, lots of 3/4 ton and 1 ton diesel pick-up trucks on the market 25 years ago, so you are comparing what to what? The friggin GM 6.2 wasn't even out yet!
Threatened? Hardly. The overall underlying pattern however seems to be a lot of people who smell your BS for what it really is.
Yeah, R-134 is so poisonous they use it as propellant in asthma inhalers. Like -so- many other things, you have your facts very wrong. Now, explain for me how it is that the HCs in your AC system are somehow less polluting than the HCs from an engine tailpipe which have been regulated since the clean air act of 1968?
That's a time management issue.
You have no way of knowing how much that trailer weighed.
It might be if others come out and call it a lie, so far, it's only you. We'll just have to wait and see. Being a Ford truck NG, it shouldn't take long.
That is ridiculous beyond belief. A gas engine has no efficiency advantage considering the compression ratios involved. A normally aspirated gas engine has no advantage over a turbo diesel considering that it has no way to increase charge density.
Sorry to burst your bubble SnoCone, the current NOx standards are;
Passenger car 5/50 diesel 1.00 gpm gas 0.40 gpm Passenger car 10/100 diesel 1.25 gpm gas 0.60 gpm HLDT (>6000gvw) 5/50 diesel ----- gas 1.10 gpm HLDT (>6000gvw) 10/100 diesel 1.53gpm gas 1.53 gpm
You know, any time someone pulls exaggerations out of their ass, they've lost any and all credibility. BTW, where -do- you get your information, hanging around a pickle barrel?
And of course, on planet SnoBall, the faster you spin a gas engine, the less fuel it will use.
Fuel cost more, will always cost more? Funny, diesel was 15 cents a gallon cheaper than 87 regular here this summer. Another exaggeration that fails the test of fact.
Yup, all those rescue squads running diesels. Fools. All those people pulling horse trailers. Fools. Contractors. Fools. Tow truck operators. Fools. That back hoe digging a foundation. Owned by a fool. OTR trucks (gears galore). Fools. The list goes on and on.... All fools.
Has nothing to do with aluminum.
Gotta talk to the factory about that one, they installed the spark plugs.
Really? Which one are those?
Nope. I buy the OEM specified spark plug for GMs. Doing otherwise is asking for trouble.
Already refuted your exaggerated claims.
Already refuted your exaggerated claims.
Thing is, I was a truck mechanic up to 16 years ago, the gas engined dump trucks in the fleets I worked for were absolute dogs compared to the diesels and these gas motors -were- unregulated.
366 cid, 409 cid, 427 cid, 348 cid, 392 cid, 549 cid Chevies and International Harvester. 5 spd/4spd tandem and tri-axle.And the Catholic church is the leading cause of the Catholic religion...
I'll put that with all your other promises.
Ya OK... Try getting a pickup truck, with the aerodynamics of a brick, to go 222 MPH with a diesel engine. Banks did, and kept it street drivable too.
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