excursion - Diesel vs. gas

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:48:19 -0700, "Apples & Oranges"

Obvious anti-diesel bias. Personally, I rather enjoy the sound of a diesel. Don't mind the smell, either. Its all part of the package.

Diesel is not for everyone. Thats true, no denying it. I will be picking up an '05 F350 Crew 4x4, 6L powerstroke, it will pull a 5th wheel travel trailer (in the 11 thou pound range). I fully expect to keep it about twice to three times as long as most keep their trucks. I've been running my '85 F250 6.9L diesel for just under a half a million miles. It will pull the load, it will barely break a sweat. I don't mind the more expensive habit (damn but thats a lot of oil!).

Your cry about tough-to-find diesel is crap. I long-hauled back in the late '90s (got off the road in '98) and there are quite a few diesel stops out there. Obviously more than you think. No, not as prevalent as gas, but hardly difficult to find. Want speed and fast take-offs? get a Mustang. Want pulling power that will give and continue to give? Get a diesel.

The problem with your position is that you are using motorcycle and small Japanese gas engines while attempting to illustrate this great divide between the gas & diesel engines as they pertain to moving from point A to point B quicker than one another while towing a trailer or empty.

The 7.5 liter / 460 cubic inch ford big block is not a little high revving gas engine. Your beloved noisy powerstroke is running around with in the neighborhood of 63 less horsepower and 6 yes only six more lb-ft of torque then my 460! So explain to me exactly what your big imagined power advantage is again? This time stick to the engines being discussed. Just so you know I don't spin my 460 past 4500 rpm.

Yes it storms right past the noisy black smoke blowing diesels every damn time.

Like I have already stated twice before the diesels highly touted longevity might come into play if the 460 wasn't holding up fine to over 200,000 miles anyway.

As much as you would like to believe it diesel engines are not magic.

Obvious diesel bias.

Or if you don't want to compromise, go with a gasser and have both, speed and fast take-offs and pulling power. Then you won't have to shut er down at the drive through either.

>

At the same time using nearly half as much of cheaper (diesel) fuel.

BTW, what is the HP and torque of your 460 ?

R.

351CJ wrote:

LOL! =`:^D

Of course.

True. Hence my CVT example. With the CVT, both engines would immediately be at their power peak and would pull the same. I agree with your example and using standard *real world* transmissions. i.e my comment about flat torque in the last sentance of my previous post.

I didn't say it would be pleasant!

If it is geared properly to match the power peak, it doesn't matter. Power is power.

And this is one of the major points here. If you plan on running your truck over 200,000 miles, then the diesel becomes a pretty smart option as, ( in theory), it will run to 500,000 miles without any real problems.

Personally though, I couldn't do it. I've got a 96 Safari van with

150,000 miles and little stuff keeps breaking on it. I get real tired of the nickle and diming that goes with a high mileage vehicle. Granted, the simpler a vehicle is, (no power options, few computer controls, no ABS), the less this would be an issue. Sadly, my F-250 is saddled with just about every option available, and when the time comes, it is going to be a real headache to fix all the crap that is likely to break.

Matt

99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4

Have to agree with you on that. I'm an old diesel driver, but I will certainly admit that I've been eye-balling the V-10. When 2005 rolls around, and its time to put the stake into the heart of my old '85 F250 diesel, I'll have to make the decision. Leaning on the diesel for the longevity (I am fully aware that, as the example given, I tend to put quite a few more miles and years on my vehicles than the average truck owner). Unless I'm mistaken, though, they (diesels) tend to retain their value quite nicely (so long as you haven't ragged-out the truck).

I have a 2000 F250SD V10, 3.78 gears. My in-law has a 2000 Excursion diesel, 3.78 gears.

His trailer weighs ~10,000 lbs. Mine weighs ~7000 pounds (and I always have ~1000 lbs in the bed)

He's towed mine, I've towed his, we've swapped trucks and trailers to test this out.

The result is that the V10 outperforms with either load on hills because it will turn over 4000 RPM in 2nd gear at ~60 MPH up hills where the diesel has to stay in 3rd gear because of the diesel's lower RPM requrements. Yes the diesel motor generates more torque (about

20% more) but loses the advantage because the tranny must use higher gears for a given road speed.

The diesel does go from 0 to 20 MPH faster than the V10 -- but after that... no.

Now, with that said, the diesel gets 10-12 MPG towing the big trailer. The V10 gets 7.5 to 8.0 with the big trailer -- but it *moves*.

--Mort

Mort,

Certainly you must be mistaken! NO mere gasoline engine could possibly out perform a Powerstroke Diesel!

Maybe because of all the noise and smoke you became confused?

:-)

Thanks for the post...