Anti-Lock Brakes

OR there's an underlying mechanical problem causing it to activate all the time, OR its a piss-poor ABS design (there are lots of them out there).

Hooey. Their cars have been refined to the point that the skill of the driver matters a lot less now than in Mario Andretti's day. The failure of F1 drivers to succeed in other series in recent years backs this up. F1 still demands lightning reflexes which is why successful F1 drivers are always very young, but old-fashioned car control is less of an issue, IMO.

And its much harder to police just how traction control is being used to aid the driver.

Pawlowski wrote:

PolicySpy:

That's very good viewpoint...and something to consider.

But mid-curve is a extreme and critical situation. And an overcorrection at mid-curve is catastrophic to vehicle stability...in that the vehicle twists around so that the nose of the vehicle is going off the outside of the road with the vehicle still under the G-force of being in the curve.

On the high bank race tracks...any slide is immediately an overcorrection...because of the magnification of the traction from the banking...because of high speed air on the side of the car...and now because of the traction of newly developed racing tires.

But recently any slide by a formula car is immediately an overcorrection...because of the traction of newly developed race tires.

But the average person on the street can overcorrect at mid-curve simply by correcting too soon or too much or too fast. At midcurve the rear-end of the car can't be snapped back in line but the slide must be carried to the end of the curve.

And if the car is trying to slide at mid-curve but the ESC is trying to prevent the slide...that is an overcorrection. At midcurve a slide must be allowed...and anything else is an over-correction.

A race car that slides at midcurve immediately hooks-up and that is a spin-out. Race car drivers prevent the hook-up by locking up the brakes of the vehicle in the curve...and the vehicle continues on an arc that will leave the track but avoids going off the track at a steep angle. Hopefully the race car driver just avoids the slide at midcurve and then runs out of track width (instead) at the exit of the corner.

Of course a street car can slide at midcurve without an immediate hook-up. But the action of the ESC at midcurve might be the hook-up...that launches the vehicle off the road at a steep angle.

A midcurve slide is just a much more extreme situation than a slide at the end of a curve...

In fact if you were going to practice 50-MPH 20-degree slides at a driving school...the practice and track set-up would represent an end-of-curve slide. A mid-curve slide would be too difficult to set-up because it would require holding racing level cornering loads through a long curve...

But a driver on the street can make a mistake and find themselves in a slide at midcurve...

I don't have any evidence on the ESc under that particular condition either way. Do you?

You set up one scenario that may, or may not, be critical with ESC. Factor in the so many more scenarios where it can keep a car under control in slippery conditions, too fast on the exit ramp, avoidance maneuver to change lanes quickly, etc.

The only one that bugged me was the ones on the 90's suburban, and they were mediocre at the best, but they worked. the worst ABS that I delt with were the "experimental" models that worked fine- but by the time they failed parts were rare and exorbitant. And I have NEVER, EVER had any model car come into a shop with any abs activate all the time. The closest would be a car that was over sensitive. I think in regards to ABS, people make Mountains from Molehills. As far as a car is concerned, that system has been one of the ones I have had to work the least on. Stephen H.

mismatched-under/over inflated -bald tires- People who think they have the skills of a Formula 1 drivers but don't (Been there, then I grew up)

I can remember driving Dodge vans with and without ABS... this would have been mid 90's. It was dangerous because unless you remembered which van you were in you might "float" into the middle of an intersection. Bad weather plus ABS = no brakes in those vans.

fortunately, ABS has improved since then...

nate

Just a few days ago was driving a buddies Dodge p/u (2000) a different vehicle has a different feel... Had to be real careful, my subie engine was in the back not strapped down!

True dat, but my point was that there were actually a couple vans, within a few model years of each other and essentially identical except one had ABS and the other didn't (probably a model year or two older.) The one without ABS was much easier to stop in poor weather, as if you activated the ABS it would get waaaaay to aggressive and you'd lose almost all braking, even if you just hit a short patch of ice that you would have hardly noticed in the non-ABS van.

nate

You do realize that by "all the time" I didn't literally mean "all the time." ;-)

What I meant was that if you *routinely* feel ABS activating, (say several times a week) then something is probably wrong and causing the ABS to have to work in situations where the regular braking system should be able to cope just fine.