Brake shake with freshly machined rotors?

It is very true that they don't always work as advertised. That said - it is important to not that the precise torque that one would achieve with a torque wrench is not necessary either. Yes - over torquing can warp a rotor, but... and it's a bit butt, you have to overtorque a lot to incur this problem. Allow wheels, or not - you have to go a long way to incur this problem. Torque is often the first thing people speak of but it is usually not the real culprit. Cheap rotors are a very common culprit. Cheap pads are another. Switching to ceramics makes a huge difference in heat dissipation, therefore the problems. So - it may be warpage, but that warpage is more likely to be component related than it is to be torque related.

Not true at all. They are not obligated to fix as you suggest, and generally don't.

Bull. Many of us know exactly the path of troubleshooting, and the more likely problems. Knowledge is worth acting on.

Bull again. The dealer will and is, obligated to take your input into consideration, but to also apply their training and skills.

Agreed. And man, oh man, am I glad for that. I was beginning to feel like I was doing nothing but disagree with you.

By the time you pay to machine two warped rotors, which are only going to be a tad better when reinstalled, you may as well purchase two new rotors that you know will be straight. Those warped rotors are not only warped, but have likely been subjected to extremely high temperatures and/or excessive stress on the lug nut studs from overtorquing. Not only are they warped, they more than likely have heat spots all over them. As far as I know, you cannot remove heat spots by machining the rotor. No, I haven't had that many bad experiences, but I can tell you for a fact, that it is much more cost effective in the long run to just purchase two new rotors. Buy one set of rotors the first time, as opposed to paying to machine an old set and then having to replace them much sooner down the road than you had wanted to, with a new set.

Another factor is whether you plan to keep the car long or short term. I tend to keep my vehicles long term, thus my reasoning for my reply.

Sharky

Horse stuff...You really dont seem to know what you are talking about at all.

If the original rotors have enough meat left to allow them to be machined, and IF they are machined properly and installed properly, they will normally be okay.

Buying a new rotor is likely to give you a good platform, but not necessarily. They should be surfaced, in most cases, to be sure the pads seat in well, and they CAN be warped (directly from the factory in China).

It's amazing what constantly being underbid by incompetent thieves, and then fixing their mistakes and thievery, will do to your bedside manner.

Which "the lathe" are you referring to? Have you had bad experiences with the Tyco or Fisher Price offerings?

Perhaps he unevenly "torqued" (with a "torque stick") the wheels or didn't cut the rotors properly, or was using one of the lathes you've had bad experiences with.

If the answer is 'more than 3 mm', what would you say to that?

Probably not; without confirmation, we can assume that this is the average tech doing warranty work here...

Not sure where you are, but consumer protection laws in most states govern this, and when a customer asks for a specific fix or action, they are required to do it. I've never seen a shop that would do something else, they risk the customer's rath and a complaint to the state if they do so.

That would be something like going into a bakery and asking for a loaf of white bread, being given a loaf of whole wheat (because it is healther) and that substitution being OK.

Clearly the OP didn't, or he would not have specified a repair that was ineffective and probably unnecessary. I saw no indications of technical skill, no indications of any diagnostic process other than 'assume', 'assumed' and probably a bit of guess and by gosh.

Again, no, this is not the way things happen. At least in most states. You ask for something specific, that is *exactly* what they must do, or do nothing unless you say so. So often it is inpossible to determine whether the customer's request is reasonable or going to resolve any problem, so the shop will do what the customer requests--provide that loaf of white bread.

Oh, hell, you can disagree. I'm respected in my field, and know what I'm saying (and when someone comes to me and asks for a specific repair or process, I make it a point to impress on the customer that I cannot ensure that the repair will do anything other than cost him/her money.

The OP would have been much better off just taking it in and saying: "Here is what happens, please fix it", instead of suggesting repair methodologies.

Is this thing still under warranty? If not, why?

Toyota MDT in MO wrote in news:%wi%l.248$ snipped-for-privacy@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com:

Price did not enter into it for me. One of the places that was inept was the local Acura dealer ($110/hr shop rate!). I even made a point of telling everybody I did not care what they charged me, so long as the tires ran smooth the first time. Nobody ever charged me any more than their standard fee.

The reason I was using tire shops instead of my guy was because the tire shops were conveniently close. In some cases, they were within walking distance of my work.

My guy is 60 miles away. He gives me a loaner car, but I still have to find the time to get out there, then time to go back and get my car when it's ready. I used to live much closer, but we moved away in 1994.

I stand by my final assertion: "Problem is, most tire monkeys receive little training, and their bosses understand little to begin with." Tire mounting appears to be the sort of job given to the lowest-paid and least experienced person in the shop.

A bad tire will not make the brake pedal shake!

...nor will a bad tire make the steering wheel shake under braking!

One of the problems, I think, is that the client and the mechanic don't take the time to even briefly discuss the problem and what is expected. That could save a lot of hard feelings.

I have seen it too many times...clients dont know anything about mechanical issues, and mechanics dont want to waste their time talking to the client.

This is the location of the previous Babcox site, and there is a lot of good information if you will dig for it.

Believe what you wish. If you think using an overheated, overtorqed, warped rotor that has likely been pushed over its' limit more than once, and then you take that rotor and make the surface even thinner than it was, how can that possibly be any better than buying new? Nevermind the fact that the metal properties of the rotor have already been effected from excessive heat. And knowing that it probably cost you 2/3rds of buying new in the first place. Personally, I don't believe in doing things half-assed, nor do I have the extra time or desire to have to re-do the same job 6 months down the road. As far as buying new rotors and them already being warped, I don't buy no-name parts in the $20 or less bin. You can buy a medium to high quality rotor and still pay under $75 each, in most cases. More than likely it was made right here in NA and not overseas.

Listen, if I had a machine in my shop at my disposal, of course I would resurface the old rotors, so long as they met the requirements to do so. But in the middle of a brake job, with the front-end of my car in pieces, I am not going to try and find a way to the closest shop with a lathe and then turn around and pay anywhere from $20 to $50 per rotor to have them machined. For one, not everyone has a second car in the driveway to be able to do that. Secondly, you have no idea how that rotor is going to turn out. Even an expert machinist may not be able to cut it perfectly. And if he doesn't, that's the same as taking a lighter to the money you just spent on that used rotor. No, I'd rather just pick up a pair of rotors while I'm already at the parts store to get pads and whatever else I need. That way, I have two new rotors sitting beside me when the brakes are ready to go back together.

I'm talking about cost in the long run and life of the used rotor. It makes much more sense to buy two new rotors as opposed to machining used/warped rotors that will probably last under a year. The last time I had rotors/drums machined, it cost me about $30-$40 per rotor/drum. For most domestic vehicles I have owned in the last 10 years, add ~$25 or less per unit and you have new, with warranty. What happens when that used rotor fails a second time around, and you have no option of machining it? Don't tell me you search all the junk yards for a used pair to resurface?

Sharky

Maybe you have had some bad luck. I certainly would support that some rotors shouldn't be machined and should be replaced with new.

But not every occasion of warpage demands a new rotor.

Machining at the local shop here is $15 a rotor. New rotors cost varies a lot.

A lot of mechanics just replace caliper and rotor, because they believe the cost is equal or less than doing a good renovation job (and it MIGHT be), because they dont want comebacks of the type you describe, and because the customer pretty much has to pay whatever the case.

If you are paying for the work they should do what you ask. Warranty work though, is a different matter. The car maker is paying for the work and he will want it fixed according to the diagnosis of his trained mechanic, not some rube off the street that has not looked under the hood since 1962.

That said, after 3 visits to my Buick dealer for an AC repair, I told them what to do. They stood firm at first and said "evaporator coils never leak". Then they took ten minutes to check it. Then they ordered the coil.

Smart shops will listen to the customer and possibly even start the repair, then show the customer what the real problem is and how they can fix it.

But don't write off tires.

Twice now I have been hjacked around because they were in warranty and they didn't want to exchange them.

One set was OEM factory on a new vehicle. Just lived with the nuances until we replaced them at 55,000 mi. or so. The new tires of a differnet brand solved a lot of problems in stearing, braking and steering. I let the dealer convince me it was "normal". Wish I hadn't, because I became quite irrate after changing the tires to find out it was tires all along.

Another time we had similar issues but also could not get a good alignment. It was pretty bad, 4 allignments, 2 brake checks later I said if you do not warranty them, I will buy a different brand elsewhere and have these sent to the safety government people. I had a new set on ASAP and the problems went away.

All too often it is the tires and they try to putz with the alignment or something else to compensate.

I didn't specify a repair, I described the symptoms, and said something like "it feels like the rotors may be warped." I agree with your point, don't diagnose something for the wrench unless you are

100% sure that you are right.

And that's what I believe happened, except for the fact that the problem was not fixed. However, a visual inspection shows that they did in fact do what in my mind should have most likely rectified the problem, at least temporarily, but it did not.

If it's tires, I'm just going to have to live with it... like I said this is a company car and while I am trying to take good care of this one a) I can't afford for it to be in a shop for a lengthy period of time and b) things like new tires, brakes, etc. for non-worn-out components would come out of my own pocket because there's no way in hell the fleet people would pay for it.

in fact, I'm surprised that they've paid for the alignment, wheel balance, tire rotation, and now this latest messing with the brakes, which I've all requested since I got the car 4K miles ago. However the car drives so much better now that all that's been done that I feel pretty confident in saying that it's better to have done it early than not. (and why should a car need alignment at 14K-ish miles, when I first got it? I don't know, but it did.)

nate

I was merely explaining why the guy you go to (because he's good) doesn't win any friendship awards. Most of the time truly good techs work for less $ overall than the competing thieves, add to that - guess who undoes the previous failures, butchery, and needless parts shotgunning performed by said thieves? Then guess who the average customer thinks is the better mechanic? Naturally, the one armed with more BS advertising, flowery ass smoke, and (needless) parts sales. The real shop who charges 1 - 3 hours labor and $10 in wiring supplies (and actually spends that much time finding/fixing the difficult problem) can't even get this type of customer to come back for PM or "normal" repairs where a comfortable living can be made.