Brake shake with freshly machined rotors?

And that's what I believe happened, except for the fact that the problem was not fixed. However, a visual inspection shows that they did in fact do what in my mind should have most likely rectified the problem, at least temporarily, but it did not.

Read the Babcox site. Just machining the rotors is not always the total cure, especially if they are machined off the car.

And if the technician were pressed (as dealerships sometime do), he might have rushed through the work.

If a person really wants to know if the rotors are still deformed, they can be measured by dial indicator for run-out, or by a caliper for thickness variation.

Had this happen to a friend just a week or so ago. The mechanic turned the rotors but didnt do a good job. Most of the shudder is gone, but not all of it. A real pisser.

If the technician installs new rotors, but doesnt check them for mating trueness, you can still have a problem. Again, machining them on the car can give relief from this.

FWIW, I just went thru the same issue with my mother's Acura. Went thru the same stuff, even got new tires (she needed them anyway). I finally said to hell with it & replaced the front discs & pads...problem solved.

It would be much more like bringing in your just-purchased loaf of bread (still under warranty) and complaining that it hadn't risen enough, then telling the bakery's service advisor "too low yeast content during manufacture is the cause, please add more yeast". The fact is that the loaf had enough yeast in it but it wasn't baked fully. The proper fix would be to bake it fully, but an incompetent service advisor would heed the customer's request and end up with wasted money and a non-repair. Yes, this analogy is technically ludicrous, just trying to make a point.

Agreed. The problem is that customers don't necessarily know *not* to suggest a repair, whether we're talking about warranty or pay services. The service advisor should know better, however, and not write up "turn front rotors", rather he should write "complaint: vibration when braking at 45+ mph that can be felt in the steering wheel" or similar (don't remember Nate's actual complaint to the letter).

Agree totally. The guy who does a good job and checks his work may, unfortunately make less money than the guy trying to beat the flat rate, putting on unnecessary parts, and doing that shoddily.

That is why it is important to find a good mechanic and support him or her. If you can trust him, and he knows his stuff, he is worth the money.

That's always worked for me, though it only happened on one car. And the new rotors were only 20 bucks each. When the rotors are expensive, you might want to look for other solutions first.

--Vic

I'm a crusty young guy that generally fits that description, but I imagine the vehicle freight charges would negate any savings :-) Also, find a crusty guy that doesn't get his crust on your car. Greasy isn't good on fabric or fenders. A 100% successful repair is one that addressed only the actual failed part(s), was done in a timely and convenient manner to the customer, and the car was returned at least as clean as it was brought in. Being nice to the customer really hinges on whether the customer was nice to begin with and isn't always included in the cost :-)

theoretically, but because it is a fleet car, for anything I take it to one of two "approved" shops. If they say it has to go to the dealer, *then* I take it to the dealer.

I really wanted to get my local wrench (near my house) with the program so I could just drop it off there for maintenance/repair, but when I tried to get them on board I inadvertantly caused all sorts of kerfuffle and pissed off my boss, so I won't do that again. There's some things that are worth making a big deal over, and there's times you just grin and say "why yes, of course, I'll come in on Saturday just so I can get my car serviced at the approved shop." Not that I'm bitter or anything. Well, OK, I am, but aside from little PITA stuff like this, I'm legitimately happy to still have a good job these days. The pay's OK and even if it's a PITA to deal with, having a car with gas and maintenance paid for is quite nice - certainly if I were providing my own transportation my old 944 wouldn't cut it, not without a major overhaul first, not with the amount and type (mostly city, with interspersed blasts of high-speed freeway) driving that I have to do. Even if my workload is temporarily doubled because another employee decided that this wasn't the right place for her.

Yes, I am checking Usenet from my desk at work, while waiting for files to download. *sigh* I have no life... (must remember to call Dad later)

nate

Please explain to a "non-mechanic";

If the problem only shows up when the brakes are applied, I would be looking only at the braking system....

Faulty tires/balancing/rims would shake at driving speeds.

???

Here is another link for you, Nate:

There's an entire shop management approach to maximizing profit that says (I may have the percents wrong) every $100 in labor should be matched by $200 in parts largely because the markup on parts is about twice the markup on labor. These shops don't really want to do work that is mainly labor. Try and find a place that will replace a rear main seal.....much easier to find a place that will do a complete rebuild.

no one who is up to date recommends resurfacing new rotors. When you get a set of heads do you send them out to be milled???

Nope. By surfacing, I do not mean machining. Perhaps that is the issue.

Toyota MDT in MO wrote in news:Pdt%l.210$ snipped-for-privacy@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com:

I always thought I was being a pretty decent customer to my guy. Maybe I'm wrong.

if I were going to "build it to last forever" I definitely would. And ported, gasket matched, etc.

nate

There is a difference. If you go in and say you want something done, that is one thing. If you go in offering your suggestions or advice on how to diagnose or repair a problem, that's an entirely different matter.

Agreed. I should have stated my response better. In the case of the OP, I agree with you. In the case of more knowledgable people, not so much.

Again - I think we're talking two different things.

I'm quite certain from your deportment displayed here that you have been a good customer. I was simply trying to explain why certain service providers act the way they do in this business. The 'everyone's buddy' 'yes man' BSer personality is rarely one who does his job honestly and competently in my experience.

I think there may be something you are overlooking here. You described a vibration in the steering wheel that got worse the harder you brake. So that is all we (us readers) know. The question is to what extent is this affecting your ability to make a panic stop if you are cruising down the highway at 70 mph? If the guy ahead of you has to slam on his brakes are you going to slam into his rear because his brakes are a lot better than yours? I ask this because it doesn't sound like they even test drove the car after doing the work. It doesn't sound like they are taking this very seriously.

-jim

the brakes work fine, the tires suck though. that'll be what keeps me from stopping as fast as I like if it comes to that. I just worry about prematurely worn out steering parts, esp. since a common issue with this chassis is rattly steering shaft couplers.

nate

If that's what you mean then sure, they should have the proper surface finish on them. All the replacement rotors I've purchased have already been given a proper non-directional finish by whoever made them.

One thing a lot of people don't do that the repair manuals say is a MUST is to wash the new rotors (or old freshly machined ones) with soap and water. Supposedly that's the only way to get the fine metal dust from the machining/surfacing operation out of the pores. If you don't get that metal dust out then you may develop some sort of non-uniformity in the surface soon after they go in service.