I had a bad experiences with a Toyota a few years ago. I think current
Toyota products are dull and uninteresting. There is not a single Toyota
product other than the Pirus that is has any outstanding features. When
only cars the cars I can afford are like the current Toyota products, I
don't know what I'll do. I really don't understand the "Toyota
phenomenum." I've owned Toyotas, had significant others that owned
Toyotas, expect my SO to own a Toyota again soon, and worked with many
Toyota owners. None of the Toyotas I have been associated with seem to
have been particualrly reliable or long lasting. Yet, almost every Toyota
owner I know loves them. I just don't understand why. One particular
freind spent more keeping his Camry running than I spent on all the cars
I owned in the last 15 years. You'd think he'd swear off Toyotas (I know
I would have). But no, he bought another Toyota. He hasn't owned a
domestic car in 20 years (and the last one was an AMC product). When I
pointed out how unreliable his Toyota was, he took the attitude that it
was not that bad and that any US car would have been worse. He thinks I
am just lucky and that I am due to suffer soon.
It's the engine. As long as the engine itself is fine and the car starts,
most people consider the car to be bulletproof. The old Volvos used to
be the same - you couldn't kil the engine and it always ran, yet it wasn't
a Mercedes by anyone's imagination. Of course, Mercedes then started building
We heard you the first time, and we also know you speak for a small of
you. They are #2 on the planet, apparently, folks want dull and
uniteresting. Of course, trying to get out of a burning car is far from
dull and uninteresting, maybe you need a Ford?
SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
Sorry, (and I wish I had the link to prove it...) but Toyota has
overtaken Ford as the global #2 selling marque in the auto world,
Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)
Debating which is better is kid stuff, they ALL build some that
are not up to snuff. If total sales count for quality and
reliability then that would indicate GM builds the best quality
and offers the best value. Toyota indeed outsold Ford worldwide
by few thousand vehicles in the third quarter. What the Toyota
fanatics don't tell you is Ford outsells Toyota nearly three to
one in the US. The one bad Toyota one once owned does not make
all Toyotas bad anymore than does one bad GM or Ford one owned
make all GM's Fords bad. For some reason a hand full of Toyota
owners that hang in the NG's seem paranoid or have an inferiority
complex and try to justify their preference by denigrating
anything else. From what I see in our business all manufactures
are building good vehicles today, the only real difference is
style and price. I would suggest one drive and get a total drive
home price, then buy the style and brand that best suit their
needs and budget and get on with their life.
This is based on the results for the third quarter only. For the model year
Ford is still ahead. It is possible that Toyota might overtake Ford for the
model year if Toyota has a very strong fourth quarter, but it doesn't seem
likely given the strong sales of the new F150. Third qurter truck sales for
Ford were somewhat depressed becasue a lot of people were waiting to see the
new F150. The biggest thing hurting Ford car sales is the lack of new models.
They won't start appearing until next year. Toyota may finish #2 for the year
or they may not. If this happens the Ford execs only need to look in the mirror
to understand why. Instead of spending money to develop new vehicles thye
bought Volvo. t wasn't profitiable before Ford bought it, and probaly never
Sounds like my gf. She's had -one- domestic car in her life...a
Plymouth Volare, and because of that all American cars are crap
(forgetting of course that Japanese cars of that era were nothing but
rust within a year). Never mind that her son's Accura spends more
time in the shop than on the road, never mind that she only keeps a
car 3 years anyway.
I had one Toyota back in the 80s...most annoying car I've ever owned.
Cramped, cluttered interior...impossible to find a comfortable driving
position, rather anemic, very difficult to work on and not any more
trouble free than anything else I've owned.
Thanks, I'll stick with my Cavalier (299,000 & still goin' strong).
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:08:56 GMT, someone who calls themselves
The old stuff Chevy built was rock solid. Then somewhere in time (I
put it in the late 60's, early 70's) the Detroit folks lost their way
and started building all their cars to be disposable and not
People say they turned it around and are building decent cars again,
but I'm not convinced yet - people I know (including my parents and
relatives, boss and co-workers) "Buy American" and haven't had big
problems - but they have dealt with a lot of little ones.
--<< Bruce >>--
Bruce L. Bergman, POB 394, Woodland Hills CA 91365, USA
Electrician, Westend Electric (#726700) Agoura, CA
====================Yep, and with all their advances in streamlining the building process, and
the rest of it, one would think their prices would be closer to the Kia or
Hundai :) ......money hungry little boogers!
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
I'd have to agree. I've test driven Toyota's but always thought that
they sucked. I mean the Celica I test drove was as slow or maybe even
slower than my 1995 Escort and it cost a whole lot more. And the
Celica GT version cost several thousand more than the regular version
but had almost the same amount of torque, so of course it was equally
slow. Plus when you keep a car forever like I do things like
insurance costs and replacement costs matter more to me than "initial
quality". For the difference in insurance costs alone you should be
able to pay for all the extra parts you'd put in a Ford or Chevy. I
wouldn't even consider buying a Chrysler (or Mitsubishi, or Mazda, or
Isuzu, or Nissan).
I visited different Toyota dealers over the years.
I was ready to buy, but I couldn't get past their snotty additude.
This is the ( list ) price
and, this is our "markup" ( ADM ?? )
and, this is for dealer prep
and here's "shit" for your trade in......
Take it or leave it !
I left it.
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