click and clack, the tappet bros. on the issue of fuel economy

Interesting concept, but I don't think it will sell until gas hits $5 a gallon.

Sure, the latest round of prices put a small dent into Hummer and Navigator sales, but the mid range cars are still selling and we still like to stomp on the gas to get on the expressway. I just bought a new car. Did I downsize to get better mileage? No. Within a few miles per gallon, it was not even a consideration as to what I should buy.

I'd like to see what percentages of 4 and 6 cylinder engines sell in the cars that offer both. Altima seems to be moving a fair amount of the 2.5 liter but my guess is that initial price of the vehicle is more of a consideration than horsepower. The difference is about $3000. Same with the Lucerne when I was considering them. The added $3k was more of a deterrent than the 2 mpg difference. Having driven the V8, I'd have gone that way if the initial price difference was much less.

I do know of one person that now drive 5 mph slower to get better mileage from his F150 pickup though. He is the only one that does from what I can see.

We have had similar discussions before. I am wondering, out of curiosity, do you live in city, suburbia, or country and how much do you drive per day and what do you drive now? I live in Katy, Texas (west Houston suburb) and drive 25 miles one way towards downtown to work every day (and 25 miles back) on the Katy Freeway (west I-10). On a good day it takes me 45 minutes at 05:40 and 55 minutes at 18:00. I hate to give up my 92 Grand Am - it gets 24 mpg city and 27 freeway and can still burn the tires through an intersection but it has 196k on it now. Still does not use oil between 5k changes.

I also follow VW newsgroups. Same history there of their line of vehicles. Bigger engines, more horses, mpg hasn't really changed over two decades. Dependability and VW factory maintenance contracts have though for the worse.

Also another hurdle along the way in the last 2 decades is the EPA requirements for exhaust gases.

Todays Accord is a much larger car, because that is what the American buyer prefers to buy. Honda still makes a car, the size of the eighties Accord that get 35 MPG. It is called the Civic. ;)

mike hunt

The Grand Marquis is still the best buy on the market today. Nothing else in the 18K to 22K range brand new even comes close. ;)

mike hunt

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The difference in mpg is so negligable that it makes sense to buy the bigger car. Most every car is putting out like about 180HP and getting 25-35 mpg. If they were engineered/tuned differently, I bet a 80hp 60mpg car is very possible.

I live in a small town about an hour away from a large city. I work nearby so only drive about 10 miles per day on average. We do go on road trips a lot. I drive a 2004 Kia Sedona minivan, and the wife drives a '99 Olds 88

Thanks. I have a better understanding of your view point now. I don't disagree with it. I had pictured you as living in NYC and not owning a vehicle. Someday I would like to work less than 25 miles away - and still make decent money. Paul.

You have to remember that engineers and marketers have thought of all of these things long before this discussion. If it were that easy to get 60 to

Do you think there's a reason that those cars don't exist? Think about the trade-off's in such things as minimum horsepower requirements to be usefull as more than just a vehicle to run city blocks. Think about the need for vehicles to actually be able to maintain legal and safe speeds over hills - long hills like we find commonly in the US and which are not so uncommon in other parts of the world. Think about durability. Think about comfort. Not luxury - simple comfort. Think about safety. Crush zones and integral roll cage type construction is not the complete answer. Nor are offset front end crash tests. They only reveal part of the story.

I'm not even sure that 60-80 mph is really obtainable in practical terms, and I really don't think it is in consideration of all other facets of an automobile.

I've seen several on the freeway. Decent looking car. I'll have to check them out along with Ford Fusion.

Just like 100 mpg carbs, there are still people out there that believe in fairies...

"Woody" wrote in news:0xDTg.18419$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:

No fairies involved. I think mpg's haven't really gone too much up because automakers have instead focused on wringing out extra horsepower. They've improved gas mileage on huge vehicles. Modern Chevy Suburbans/Tahoes get around 25mpg highway as opposed to like 10mpg 20 years ago. I can see continually improving the performance of performance cars like Mustangs, Vettes, 350zx, etc., but it'd be cool to offer a 60-70mpg regular car.

Yep, and the first Civics were getting 50+ mpg hwy.

Totally illogical. Can get double the HP from same or equivalent engine over two decades, remain within increased EPA pollutant standards. Yet, cannot increase mpg without increasing HP dramatically. In fact, don't increase mpg over two decades. Nope. Total crap. A token 30+ mpg as fantastic in new vehicles, not. Consider selling used cars to little old ladies.

Consider mass/weight vs. hp vs. mpg formula. The only thing that has really increased is hp and vehicle weight. Hp in an given engine size is directly proportional to higher mpg in a smaller engine moving the same mass/weight.

Vehicles getting 30+ mpg two decades ago could go 90-100 mph on the highway. Don't remember any of them being GM though. These vehicles approximated

That is not true as best the first Civics could get was 45 MPG, I owned one. However the first Civics were midget cars, with much smaller engines as well. They were dangerous little cars that could barely get out of their own way. To get any vehicle that will attain more than 50 MPG one needs to buy a motorcycle ;)

mike hunt

The current Camry with a 4 cy engine, is a good example of a car that gets good mileage for a car that size, but it too can not get our of its own way. I see fully loaded tractor trailers pass them on long grades on the interstates ;)

mike hunt

Even a small one passenger motorcycle, that is barely capable of 65 MPH, can not attain much more than 50 MPG

mike hunt

Bullshit . My wife's Kaw EX250 , when driven sanely , usually exceeds 50 mpg . And that's around town , it gets better mileage on the highway , again , if driven sanely . BTW , this bike , in stock form , is capable of speeds in excess of 100 mph ...