Looking for a mid-size domestic car recommendation

I don't see many of the new Malibu's here either...and I live a mile from a Chevy dealer...one would think you'd at least see the ones out for a test drive.

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| > The new Chevy Malibu is getting very strong reviews in the press, and the | > friend of ours who bought one is happy with it. | >

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Buick received some high marks on reliability recently as well. A little bland on styling. And definitely gimmicked control systems, right down to the silly vehicle speed-controlled radio volume control system.

Jeeezzz, James.......You seem to think every modern convenience is silly or a gimmick. Do you have a running stream with large rocks in it near your house? I'm sure it comes in handy on laundry day.

H

They also forgot to finish putting the sheet metal on the back end :)

To me, it looks like they ran out of material, and chopped the ass-end off.

How much oil smoke do they blow out the tailpipe? Seems I can't pass a Lincoln Town Car, GM or CV and NOT see a cloud of blue smoke behind it, except for the police version of the CV...

What !? Canada isn't part of the US????

Damn !

So that explains our crippling taxes and pathethic government.

Only way to really know if it is truly German is to try and sell one.

If it maintains more than 50% of it's purchase price in the first year you're probably not driving your fathers Chrysler. :-)

Of course the executives are not shareholders. They don't mind the income, but they sure aren't tying their futures to the companies. :-)

Before anyone gets their panties in a knot about bad foreigners and good domestic employers keep in mind that Ken Lay & Company were right from the USA. And "Madonna," (who lives in England so she doesn't have to pay US taxes) is yet another example of US corporate responsibility.

We should care less about who "owns" a given logo than where the income, profits and taxes go.

I couldn't care less if a North Korean Company made all my products, if all the income, profits and taxes stayed right here.

Remember GM makes more money from financing, than from Vehicle production.

Are you sure the smoke isn't from a Chrysler mini van in front of the CV? Since 1992 members of my family have owned

5 Ford modular V-8s. Not one has blown blue smoke out the tailpipe - including ones that had over 147,000 miles. I occasionally see CV taxi cabs in my area that emit a little smoke at times, but around here the taxi cabs are all ex-highway patrol or city police vechiles purchased from the NC State Surplus Property auction. Mostly they start out their life as taxi cabs with 75,000 to 100,000 miles and go from their.

Ed

They put them on the floor. I am 6'3" and I never have any trouble riding in the back of my Mom's Grand Marquis.

Ed

Versus a high percentage lining the pockets of fat cats in Michigan?

Ed

You got a problem with that?

--Geoff

And I though that there was a country which was Southern Ontario + USA, and then there was Canada...

DAS

Interesting about Chrysler, but Daimler-Benz never had significant executive shareholders, AFAIK. The biggest single 'private' shareholder is the Kuwaiti govt, via its investment vehicle.

DAS

Many international companies maintain R & D and design studios in several countries, not just in their HQ building.

Some of you just have to get over the fact that international companies are international... in Britain this process took place many years ago with the demise of British Leyland, before which a high percentage of cars sold in Britain were 'domestic'. Anyway, how 'foreign' are Ford and GM in Britain, both whom have maintained production etc here for decades?

DAS

Yes. For instance:

"Wagoner's total 2002 compensation package reached $14.7 million in 2002, compared with $7.43 million in 2001, when the company failed to achieve financial targets, according to the company's proxy released Thursday."

Do you really think the guy running GM is worth $14.7 million dollars? I don't.

Ed

I don't think it's any of my damn business what he or anyone else earns in their paycheck. His salary is the result of a deal struck between that Wagoner and his employer, and he was well-served to negotiate the best deal for himself that he could, whether you or I or anyone else thinks that he's 'worth' that or not. Obviously, if the board of directors thought he was overpaid, they'd cut his salary. If they were somehow in cahoots together and the overly large salaries were really causing actual harm to the company, the stock price would plummet as the company failed to perform. These things have not happened, so I think it is fair to conclude that Mr. Wagoner has struck a fair deal for himself with General Motors, which in case you didn't know, is currently the largest automobile manufacturer *in the world*. Would I want fourteen million dollars to live with the headache of running and being made accountable for an operation that large? You're goddamned right I would, and I think I would deserve it. Half of the freaking State of Michigan is relying upon that man to make good decisions and keep the General Motors empire -- with finances larger than many individual countries -- rolling along making a profit.

*My* income depends, in part, on his making good decisions.

Do you mean to tell me that GM shouldn't reward an individual for an effort of that magnitude?

Do you mean to tell me that GM shouldn't try to attract the best and the brightest among us to positions that have that sort of responsibility?

Do you mean to tell me that GM should place that sort of responsibility in the hands of somebody who's willing to do the job cheap?

Do you mean to tell me that somehow *your own* contribution to society at large is commensurate with his, and therefore he is not deserving of his salary because *you* do not make as much?

What I would like to know is who nominated you as being the arbiter of who should get paid and how much? I would also like to know how your system of values has gotten so completely f**ked over that you think that the people who *make it possible* for half of an entire state to have good employment, homes over their heads, food in their mouths and educations for their children shouldn't get paid more than X dollars, regardless of what X happens to be. Are the people of the State of Michigan unimportant to you, because they happen to be distant from where you are? Is America's industrial economy something that is to be subject to the snivelling whims of people such as yourself who think that the fat cat CEOs are overpaid and 'there outta be a law?'! Do you think the shareholders of GM are so stupid they are willing to let Mr. Wagoner rip them off?

Thankfully, folks such as you *aren't* running the country. I can only hope that this condition persists in November.

I'll tell you one more thing while I'm at it: I don't make $14 million dollars a year. You probably don't make $14 million dollars a year either. Want to know why? Because neither one of us has the talent, drive, skill, experience, willingness and commitment that Mr. Wagoner manifests in his daily life. That's why he is WORTH $14 million a year, and you and I aren't. Period. I'm happy with what I earn. I would suggest that if you aren't happy with you earn, that you do something about it, and quit complaining about those who have risen to the top. That won't get you anywhere, and it sure as hell doesn't help anyone else either.

--Geoff

Geo. wrote:

If the world was a fair place, I wouldn't care what executives make. However, most large corporations are run like the '60 era Soviet Union. The Board of Directors are members of an exclusive club and they slap each other on the back while running their corporate empires for their personal benefit. Sometimes, a few crumbs reach the average investor, but that is usually a mistakle that is rectified in the next quarter. Board of Directories routinely reward incompetence with huge raises and sweet heart stock deals. They are little more than reverse Robin Hood Gangs - steal from the poor and give to the rich. If stock holders exercised any real control, then I could live with it. But for the most part, small investors are just gambling when they invest in the stock market. The big players (banks, mutuals, etc.) are all part of the big Casino that people think is a stock market. They make sure they (the BIG boys) get theirs and they don't give a d%^m about the little guy, except to have him feed more money into their coffers so that they can live like a Sultan. Having kept a job during the reign (and I do mean reign) of one of the greatest flim flam artist of the 20th century, I can tell you that the picture from the bottom of the food chain is a lot different than the one portrayed in the media. When you aren't allowed to buy pencils for a month, because the company must make arbitrary 3rd quarter numbers, or some other such nonsense, you know the people running the company are insane, or that they are cooking the books to make themselves look good.

Ed