Runaway Toyota cases ignored

On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:00:15 -0500, Mike Hunter fired up the etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:

Mike:

First off, Outlook Express is so old. It doesn't even bottom post correctly. C'mon, usenet is almost 30 years old, figure out how to correctly quote, why don't you?

Second - WTF do you mean by that remark? That the story isn't true? That the people didn't die? That an accelerator on a modern car can't get stuck? That a car would need to have endless RPMs to get up to 120 mph?

Sure a throttle can get stuck but one would have to be an idiot to let their car get up to120, before placing the car in neutral and turning off the ignition.

In any event even if the throttle did stick, any properly functioning brake system will still stop the car. If the driver actually did allow the car to over speed, the rev limiter would have prevented it from self destructing, that is why every engine today has a RPM limiter. Finally the Camry have speed limiters less than120 MPH, depending on the tire type

Next time, I'll try to remember to bottom post, just for you

I like the way you think. It's a sad story but had the driver made sure the gas pedal didn't have the floor mat shoved on it or under it, it wouldn't have happend.

I went back and re-read the original post, then read the articles and such, and basically the press and most everybody is confusing SUDDEN ACCELERATION with fat-hoofed broads pushing the floor mats so far forward that the mat gets stuck under on or under the gas pedal, resulting in the car not slowing or speeding up when they stomp the pedal hoping to free it.

So I am back to my original claim, most if not all of these accidents are caused by FAT, DUMB, LAZY, spouses and such not taking the time to make sure that the GD gas pedal is free to operate,

That would be my take as well. After all the average Toyota owner IS a fat old guy or a woman ;)

Toyota just announce that it is recalling up to 4,000,000 vehicles because of this.

I had no idea Toyota was recalling up to 4,000,000 vehicles because the cruise control was causing the car to accelerate. What I read was Toyota was recalling up to 4,000,000 vehicles because of numeracy complaints, to the NHTSA, that the rubber floor mats were jamming the accelerator. just goes to shoe one can not believe everything one reads in the newspapers ;)

John Q public wont do a damned thing about this, except continue to buy more and more of these defective products.

John Q Public is usually about 30 years behind times when it comes to knowledge about automobiles.

They just buy them based on "reputation".

Hell, the average comsumer, who has been spoon-fed lies by the likes of Consumer Reports for years, still thinks Toyotas get better gas mileage than similar GM products.

And are more reliable.

And more safe.

When in light of things happening today, none of the above are even close to being true.

The sad thing about this is that the public will finally "discover" all these things and stop buying Toyotas LONG after Toyota has corrected these problems and resumed making a decent product.

Wow! If that is, indeed, true, it means the the number of vehicles Toyota has recalled in the past few years is literally in the tens of millions..

Doesn't sound like they are the "king of relibility" to me. Wonder who CR will annoint that honor to next?

On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:57:14 -0500, Mike Hunter fired up the etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:

Well they *were* driving a Toyota...

Apparently not. If you listened to the audio, someone mentioned that the brakes were non functional.

I don't get that part. Even if I accelerate slowly - say at 1500 rpm - I'll still accelerate and would eventually reach 120MPH.

I may be burning fuel at a non-economical rate, but I'd be going fast.

Thank you - the entire usenet community would appreciate it.

Doesn't sound like they are the "king of relibility" to me. Wonder who CR will annoint that honor to next?

***** Ford just recalled a huge number as well.. 4.5 million?

Reliability is quite different from safety. GM dodged recalls for years on reliability grounds, but the law and its consequences put the onus on manufacturers to deal with perceived safety issues.

Toyota is recalling 4 million to fix the accelerator pedal. This makes them the king of recalls the past few years, but this group finds ways to make it a negative on ford and GM. Keep supporting foreign companys make ours look bad no matter what it is. Tell me would you like to live in the US and Canada or Japan Korea or China, if the latter, don't let the door hit you in the ass.

Not a recall, at least not yet

"According to the report, it is likely that Toyota will voluntarily repair or replace the accelerators out of approximately 4 million vehicles in the US. The report suggests that Toyota preferred this solution as they do not believe that the vehicles' pedals are defective - and thus do no warrant an official recallAccording to the report, it is likely that Toyota will voluntarily repair or replace the accelerators out of approximately 4 million vehicles in the US. The report suggests that Toyota preferred this solution as they do not believe that the vehicles' pedals are defective - and thus do no warrant an official recall"

Apparently you do not know much abort gear ratios, if you think that any Toyota can do 120 MPH at 1,500 RPM. At 1,500 they will be lucky to reach

20 MPH. Even at 4,000 RPM they are only doing around 60 MPH LOL

It isnt a recall yet. There is no general agreement yet that the accelerator is the problem, if there is a problem.

The Ford recall was for 3.7 million cars, and may be expaneded by another 6 million, due to the switches on the cruise controls which have been linked with fires

There IS a big difference between reliability and safety issues. GM got away with really shit for years and didnt have to fix the issues because they were reliability and quality issues, not safety issues.

Toyota hires a bunch if US citizens just like Ford, GM and Chrysler do. If I want a door to hit me in the ass, I will be the one to decide which cheek ;>)

On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:26:16 -0500, Mike Hunter fired up the etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:

Apparently I don't.

I would think that - given constant acceleration - a car could theoretically reach any speed (unless the fuel is shut off after a certian value).

On a flat area, if I drive my Avalanche - or my wife's Vue - at 1500 rpm, I'll be starting out slow, but eventually reaching some fast speed. I won't be doing it in 3.9 seconds, but I'll get there.

Same principle applies to Ion engines being used by some space craft.

You mean, like throttles sticking open on cars, as opposed to, say a recall for a tire pressure monitor that has malfunctioned???????

It appears to me that Toyota is "dodging" recalls, safety or otherwise. They just are having so many problems they cant dodge them all.

And, anyway,

Based on the news over the past few months, one can assume that Toyotas are neither reliable or safe anymore to begin with.

You mean, like throttles sticking open on cars, as opposed to, say a recall for a tire pressure monitor that has malfunctioned???????

It appears to me that Toyota is "dodging" recalls, safety or otherwise. They just are having so many problems they cant dodge them all.

And, anyway,

Based on the news over the past few months, one can assume that Toyotas are neither reliable or safe anymore to begin with.

**************** No, that is not what I mean at all. Over the years, GM has had a long series of issues that eventually led to failures or expensive repairs. It was almost as if the failures were engineered into the vehicle.

These included: (1) failures in the Metric transmissions (2) failures in the 3800 generation II engine related to the plastic plenum (3) failures in the ECS 100 alternator series (4) failures (corrosion) caused by brazing body panels together near the rear window such that water coursed down an area with an intentional galvanic corrosion cell (5) failures of the rear disc brake systems to operate properly (bad design) (6) failures of engine gaskets, attributed to DexCool, but really a mixture of bad mating surface design and inferior gasket material (7) block cracks in the Iron Duke four cylinder engine series (8) engine failures in the silicon/iron four cylinder engine blocks (inadequate development) (9) short run failures in air conditioner evaporators, essentially a corrosion problem in the aluminum evaporator system.

and others. Since these were not safety issues, in general, GM normally could dodge repairs if these junky systems lasted through the rather short warranty periods.

Toyota has had some good cars, and they have also had some problems;namely, - the sludging in certain series of engines, presumably caused by PCV system deficiencies. and,

- the odd shifting characteristics of one of their later transmission series (solved by programming) There were reportedly issues in earlier models, but I never owned one of them and dont have any friends who, owning them, had problems with them.

I owned GM cars for years, starting in the 70's, and every one of them gave me problems of some sort or the other...expensive problems, not just nagging little bitchy problems.

The claim that there is something seriously wrong with Toyota's accelerator system is very troubling. I try not to make judgements until the facts are in, and I am not sure that we know what is happening here.

You may have read about a similar situation involving the Audi 5000, which was claimed to accelerate wildly without provocation. Some people were, IIRC, killed. But it turned out that there was never a problem with the car. (A similar problem occured

3-4 years ago when a friend drove her Cadillac through the front of her house, "driving for her life". The Caddy didnt do it...she had her foot on the wrong pedal.)

Yes, I have no great love for GM right now. IF they start building real quality...quality that will last....I will consider buying one. But not yet.

Ford has played its cards considerably smarter than GM. And under Mullaly, Ford has received commendations for quality and durability. Ford also had the plastic plenum problems, but worked with the customer to fix it, rather than dodging it like GM did. Ford also has had some electrical problems which resulted in fires, but they have identified it, and recalled.

You buy what you want, and so will I.

John Q public wont do a damned thing about this, except continue to buy more and more of these defective products.

John Q Public is usually about 30 years behind times when it comes to knowledge about automobiles.

They just buy them based on "reputation".

Hell, the average comsumer, who has been spoon-fed lies by the likes of Consumer Reports for years, still thinks Toyotas get better gas mileage than similar GM products.

And are more reliable.

And more safe.

***********

We received a notification from Toyota just this morning regarding this issue. It is not a recall, at this point. This notification deals with the perceived problem, which they have identified as aftermarket or improper floor mats which can slide and interfere with the accelerator pedal. That is ALL at this time.

When in light of things happening today, none of the above are even close to being true.

The sad thing about this is that the public will finally "discover" all these things and stop buying Toyotas LONG after Toyota has corrected these problems and resumed making a decent product.