The End of Detroit

Not too long ago, Detroit-made vehicles manufactured in the U.S. were the most popular and bestselling cars. That is no longer the case, and Maynard, a reporter for the New York Times, explains how the automobile industry is now led by such companies as Toyota and Honda. She explains the various reasons for the diminished power of domestic car makers including the introduction of new, more appealing models and light trucks. Maynard writes, "With the exception of Toyota and its expansive lineup, none of the import companies has designs on meeting Detroit head-on in every segment where it competes.... They can be successful by fixing their targets and taking away markets, one by one." She cites BMW and Hyundai as two companies who know their markets very well and have solid brand images. Based on Maynard's interviews with executives and employees of many car companies, foreign and domestic, she shows how the foreign companies were repeatedly more innovative and strategic in their efforts to win over American consumers. Toyota, for example, built car plants in the U.S. and trained local employees, including Spanish-speaking workers, who would later be able to work in Toyota plants in Mexico, South America and elsewhere. The reporting is solid, but the writing is occasionally dull. Still, this is an intriguing if somewhat gloomy view of the American car business. Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc.

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I've been reading The End of Detroit by Micheline Maynard over the last few days, so I'm really not surprised to see this bad news.

The Big3 don't really know how to pay attention to customer desires. They are still chasing after the "Gotta Have It! Car" Will-O'-the-Wisp, thinking that will save them.

That method did save Nissan with the Xterra, but Nissan followed up on it with a pretty hot Maxima 2001-2, and then an excellent Altima after that. They put good quality cars out with excellent engines, and they refuse to allow any shoddiness that might cause even one customer to be disappointed. The Big3 don't really think that way, it seems. They think "good enough" is "good enough", and it isn't.

It was good enough to have a nice looking car when drivers weren't that sophisticated. It was good enough to have impressive straight-line power when the roads were used little enough to allow drag racing, and when gas prices weren't so inhibitive.

But the Big3 haven't really noticed that it is possible to fall in love with a car for other reasons, and then learn to love its looks. That happened with me with my old Volvo 240 DL, and it happened again with my '95 Honda Civic 4-door w/ stick-shift.

Of the Big3, Ford has the Freestyle, the F-150, the Focus, and perhaps the Five Hundred to catch people's attention. The Focus has decent handling and gets decent mileage for a decent price...it very nearly competes with some Japanese cars....except on the quality/reliability part. Chrysler has the 300C, the Crossfire, and the PT Cruiser to excite people and draw them in. But GM? The Malibu Maxx seems to have fallen flat, much less the original Malibu. People on the inside swear it has European handling, good power, decent fuel economy...but there isn't much buzz among the non-GM employees. The Silverado sells well, but they pretty much seem to be a step behind Ford in almost every category. The Cobalt should replace the Cavalier whose name they ruined...but it doesn't seem to be garnering much excitement at large.

GM is just the best example of the problems the Big3 all face: an inability to understand what people want, an inability to make a completely reliable car line, an apparent inability to look beyond immediate profits...

I think the internet has hurt the Big3, too, because they can no longer depend on someone walking on the lot and being able to convince him to buy that day. Rather, consumers these days research, try things out, and aren't so vulnerable to the hard sell these days. And the Big3 just don't make a good enough product any more.

Reply to
Gosi
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The real problem is people are cheapasses, they buy foreign cars and shop at walmart, thus they end up hurting their own country.

And you can talk about how many toyotas etc are built in america now, but its only so they don't get whacked with importation tarriffs. If the USA played dirty like every other country in the world, ie not allowing foreign controlling interest in domestic companies, we might be a little better off.

inability to understand what people want, an inability to make a

Reply to
Paradox

Dear Paraducks,

OK, so I've been a cheapass since 1974? Before 1974, our family never had a car (mostly General Motors) last over 100,000. Since 1974, the only vehicles we didn't keep well past the 100,000 mile mark were either wrecked or another GM product.

You're just like the same a$$jacks that have always derided me for buying 'furren' cars. Same old limp dick arguments. America can build a car as good as Toyota, they still aren't. I'm voting with my dollars against bloated 1930's style automotive manufacturing that doesn't last. Yes, I shop at Wal-mart, too. I worked there for over a decade.

Get a clue. We do not strengthen the nation by encouraging wasteful stupid processes to continue. Such as the NEA, that's why our schools are such a mess. GM would love to have a sweetheart deal like the NEA has. Then people wonder why more kids are going to private schools and home schools. If GM had the deal the NEA had, we'd still be driving 1954-style Chevrolets with cast iron 6 engines and radios with tubes in them. Not that it wasn't good in its day but both time and technology have advanced since then. America was once the leader in innovation and invention. Now we're having our lunch eaten by the Japanese and now by the Koreans, and probably next the Chinese.

I work in a hobby that's full proof of that. In 1964, Amateur radio gear was built in America by Collins, National and Hallicrafters. Some upstart company called Trio-Kenwood was just starting to be heard on the Left Coast. Basically now the only US manufacturers left are little companies like Ten-Tec, Alnico and MFJ. Yaesu, Kenwood and ICOM dominate the market.

Quit parroting moveon.org. (Or is that J***off.org, it looks the same to me.)

Charles of Schaumburg

Reply to
n5hsr

I heard a reporter state on the weekend that Ford's #2 selling vehicle is the Ford Taurus. Which you can't even buy! It's a fleet sale vehicle only.

Steve

Reply to
Steve Mackie

First I normally dont post in the international group's, but i would like to tell what and how i happend that +50% in Europe drives East-produced cars.

The europan design was bad, cars laged options like radio, elec.windows, ac aso... and cost were 2x on an europan produced cars. The "East-cars" had it all, nice design and loaded with options and some of them is/was acturally betters cars (Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan) That is happining to big US producers, started 10 years ago to WV, BMW and MB. Plants was closed production moved, plants updated, laubor layed off, and another kind of workforce was educated (robot-specialists). Lets face it, if you cant speak english and spell your name, use a computer.. your are lost in the car-industry.

But also.. the number of cars has dobbelt in the last 10 years, making it at pain to komute and park at "wallmart". In 2000 i drov 250km (incl return-trip) from Korsoer to Copenhagen everyday, it took about 2½ hour, now i takes 3½ hour because of traffic.

Another thing is milage.. lets face it you pay 2+$ pr gal., we pay just below 2$ for a 1/3gal. so milage is an big isue. It is all about money.

A third thing, yes The new 300+hp Mustang, Camaro and other muscle-car-rebirth is nice cars, but they are not within reach of the general public. They dont produce high profit out-put, they are image/lifestyle cars.

yes and no, do you have any idea how many makes are owned by GM, Ford aso... lots.

Do you really this that the US is clean... no way. The US charge Export-tax to Europe on certain products. It is like this, if you start a company in at certain country you have to play by their rules, it is like that all over the world. But ofcourse the are some kummi-countries (read mayby 2-3 left) where the goverment still are controling everything and yes they produce cars also.

Just thing... what brand (Eastern car) changed name to Chevy :-/ The "Chevrolet" brand will never be the same again. Just to do some pissing i went to the local "Chevrolet" (driving my 71' Mustang conv.) and asked for a part... "Camaro, we dont carry that model" WHAT!!! i left this with smoking tires..

Best... Leon, Denmark..

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Reply to
Leon Hulstroem

You are a little off based with your "cheapasses" comment. The USA is not playing dirty, they know the more consumers spend, the more profits they make. Everyone, buyers and corporations alike, look for quality at a lower price which leaves the consumer/corporation with more disposable income. More disposable income will permit the consumer/corporation to spend more, which helps our economy. Virtually all of the large US companies have foreign interest, especially with the weak dollar which attracts foreign investment. As a result, the consumer is better off, the US company profits increase, and the US based division of the foreign company is making money. The US was the only economy after WWII, now the rest of the world has caught up with us, a situation we have to learn to live with.

Detroit still makes good vehicles and consumers will continue to buy Detroit made vehicles, but the Big-3 has to cut costs in order to lower the purchase prices to be competitive. The Big-3 made employee pricing for consumers in the summer of 2005 and had record sales. Big-3 labor costs are killing the Big-3's ability to compete with the foreign automakers. Unfortunately, the UAW refuses to compromise on contract provisions that permit entitlements rather than worker earned benefits. It is no wonder the UAW is screaming when local newspapers printed and article the other day about Ford's plans to invest up to $9 billion in Mexico.

Despite your claim about Detroit-made vehicles, I bought a new 1976 Monte Carlo, in 1976, that was manufactured in Ontario. My parents bought a mid

70's full size Ford also built in Canada. So, Detroit has not been building 100% US built vehicles in a long time, American built as in North American built is a more correct term.

All consumers want is good quality at a fair price which is exactly what the foreign makers are doing better than Detroit can produce at the moment. If the UAW would help out, Detroit production will increase, but that is not likely to happen anytime soon. What will happen, the UAW leadership will not compromise and will end up screwing the membership after the Big-3 are forced to use foreign labor in order to be competitive.

Reply to
Frank from Deeetroit

If you think you can buy a "cheap car" at your Toyota dealers, you're sadly mistaken.

Learn your topic before you start opining.

Reply to
Anonymous

Esp. with GM, it's get the cars out fast as cheaply as possible. While this does allow them to cut their prices to remain competitive, I have NOT seen many GM cars I would be interested in owning. They just have the appearance and "feel" of being cheap. I like Fords better than GM products, with the exception of Cadillac. Cadillac has been run like 'a separate' company for years and the differences are very apparent.

Nissan HAD to change. During the 90's they almost had to stop selling cars in the US! The perception of low quality due to light weight bodies hurt them badly. Crawl around an Early-90's Nissan and take a good lok at how it was built. Very badly, IMHO. Pieces that should have been bolted (like Taoyota would do) were held together with Sheet Metal Screws! Not condusive to Good Car Building! Bodies would often develope rattles within 40-60,000 miles.

Reply to
Hachiroku

Problem with all US car manufacturers is they see the auto business as a personal "cash cow"

The main thought in management seems to be; "How can I maximise my pay/benefits package" and The same holds true for Labor too.

No one seems to have the vision for "the long haul". They haven't learned a thing from their Asian competitors. Quality, durability, and improving those things every year.

Reply to
Anonymous

No wonder the US car industry is in trouble, if they know as little of what is going on as you.

First the "foreign" cars aren't cheap, many are more expensive than their US manufacturer equivalent. A great equivalent example is the Ford Fusion vs the Mazda 6. Go see, I did.

As for those Toyotas built in NAFDA (local is not just the USA pal), they have almost as much local content as the Big3, plus their local content is increasing while GM's is decreasing rapidly.

I suggest you get some facts before you spout off.

Reply to
Just Facts

Good comments, but may I suggest NAFTA. Mexico has been included for some time in the "NA" car production, both for Big-3 vehicles and foreign brands.

Reply to
Spam Hater

NAFTA and CAFTA apply to all trade, not just automotive and thanx for the insight.

Reply to
Frank from Deeetroit

I am not spouting off, but really, NAFDA? My facts, and everyone else's facts say the agreement is NAFTA, North American Free Trade Agreement.

I am not digging at you, but I take your point about the Mazda 6 being more expensive than the Ford Fusion, but are they competive models? Considering the strength of the Yen to the Dollar, Mazda is making huge profits compared to Ford on the same competitive model. Ford would be able to make more profits if their labor costs were less than Mazda, especially considering Ford is partnered with Mazda in the Flat Rock Michigan assembly plant (about

15 miles from here).

I suspect and will appreciate your research, but no automobiles sold in the US are manufactured with 100% US made components, hasn't been in many years. Custom cars excepted.

If the foreign cars are not cheap, why are so many being sold in the US? Again, I will appreciate your research.

Reply to
Frank from Deeetroit

That's the way I feel, too. Some of my friends think that "buy American" helps America, and indeed, like tariffs, it might, in the short term. However in the long term, that behavior will weaken our country because it allows them to get-away-with being uncompetitive.

Reply to
dizzy

Actually, many "foreign" cars are made in the US.

The Toyota Sienna has 90% American content. The American content of foreign makes is increasing.

What domestic company has a fo\reign controlling interest? Please don't say Diamler-Chrysler. That is a foreign country.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

It's hard to tell the difference between a foreign and an American car anymore. The Fusion is built in Mexico and Ford owns 40% of Mazda. A lot of Ford trannys are built in France and 50% of a Ford hybrid is built in Japan. The Chevy Equinox has an engine made in China and a lot of "foreign" cars are built in USA, ALTHOUGH a part could be built in another country and finished (maybe just installing a decal or slapping on some paint) in the US and it can now be claimed to be built in the USA. The American "Big 3" cannot be called that because Chrysler is German owned. So what is American made and what is foreign made? I don't know. I do know that no matter what financial difficulties the "Big 2" have, the CEOs of these companies still pull in mega bucks and they don't care how many jobs they outsource.

Reply to
Kruse

My Pontiac isnt far from ten years old and I see no reason to replace it in the next ten years. (real detroit engine) If everyone wants to continue thinking Detroit makes inferior cars go right ahead. In ten years I'll buy another so called "inferior" Detroit car with its low resale value and not have near as much money invested in it in the short or long run.

Btw the OP " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com" is a troll. Should of been obvious from the crosspost. Have fun feeding him...

Reply to
BläBlä

They are capable of charging more as base price because of the percieved value. The average customer percieves that they are going to get more for their money, so they are willing to pay more.

Case in point: Geo Prizm 1993 vs Toyota Corolla 1993 built in Fresno. Both built on the same line, the Toyota cost about $1000 more new. Why? How many Geo Prizms from 1993 era do you still see on the road? How many AE10x Corollas(93-95) are still on the road?

Charles of Schaumburg.

Driving one of those AE109E's with 222,000 miles on it.

Reply to
n5hsr

My 15 year old Regal has finally worn out. Engine & trans are still good, but other stuff is going, as would be expected. When you keep a car that long, resale value is meaningless. Right now it is worth next to nothing, and it will take about $1500 to bring it up to "excellent" in KBB, meaning it will be worth less than $900. Needs an exhaust system, but it is the original on there.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

So your point is that you paid $1000 too much for your car?

Reply to
rmac

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