The End of Detroit

Paradox wrote:

I am a cheapskate but don't shop at Wal-Mart; however I would buy another Ford IF they would bring the model they sell in every country but the US: the Ka . But no, they have no model in the US that gets even close to the MPG my 13 year old Ford Festiva gets. Actually none of the "Big 3" have any gas-stingy compacts right now. And I'm not doing a knee jerk reaction to gas prices; my last 3 cars were all Fords, 2 Festivas and 1 Fiesta. The joke is they were all Ford in "name" only. The Festiva is really a Kia and the Fiesta was an Audi (I think...not positive). I've watched for any of the big 3 to come out with a subcompact since I was planning to retire my Festiva (I need AC and mine doesn't have it); I've surrendered and have concluded it'll have to be a Toyota or Scion instead.

Reply to
seerialmom
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Or that he has the last of that model on the road? I could count on 1 hand the number of Japanese cars over 20 years old that I have ever seen. They last 10 years and then proceed to self destruct.

BTW, since someone started the crosspost of this to the Pontiac newsgroup, my 93 GA is also still on the road, ready to take me where I need to go.

One of my brothers in law who is rich enough to buy any car he wants went thru American cars, Japanese cars, German cars and now drives a Volvo. I wouldn't be caught dead driving one, but he and my sister have determined they were the best cars in the world.

Reply to
john graesser

Actually, the Festiva, Fiesta, Yaris, xA, and xB are all sub-compacts. Chevrolet sells the Aveo sub-compact, which I believe is made in Korea, although the Aveo does not get the same fuel economy as the Yaris, xA, and xB.

Reply to
Ray O

I looked at the Aveo; and you are correct. It doesn't get the fuel economy of those others that I'm now considering. Plus it's not very pretty. And pretty is another factor :)

Reply to
seerialmom

"Pretty" is in the eye of the beholder, or driver, in the case of cars ;-)

Reply to
Ray O

Have you seen how those things are built?

You can almost go head-to-head with a bus and come out fine. Those things are built so even if the car gets destroyed, the occupants *WILL BE* safe.

:)

Reply to
El Bandito

The Fiesta was uniquely a Ford. Google Street Ka or Sport Ka for a couple of neat tiny Fords. The Ford dealer that I bought my Focus from was grumbling because the Focus Diesel isn't available in NA. Nor is the Focus ST with a Volvo 5 cyl engine turbo'ed I think!

Reply to
Robert Sveinson

I don't think they are built quite as well anymore. Some lady ran a red light and hit my wife's old Ford Tempo a few years back and the tempo drove away after being spun around a couple times and the Volvo was taken on a flatbed and the drivers door fell off.

Reply to
Eugene Nine

You should think a minute about what you just wrote, in the context of "energy absorption".

And please quit with the follow-ups.

Reply to
dizzy

Well, I was following that right up until you said the Ford Focus, Five Hundred, and Freestyle would "get people's attention." How in the world did you pick those snoozers? They might sell, but won't attract any attention.

Reply to
Joe

Actually, people are paying a lot more for foreign-brand cars than they will for similar U.S. brands. It's a far worse situation than you realize.

A lot of people (you?) have this attitude that German and Japanese wages are "Cheap Foreign Labor". That's just not true. You think GM is chokin' now, wait till they have to compete with the Chinese. That'll get your attention. Ask me now I know.

Reply to
Joe

No, my car that cost $1000 more to start with is still on the road. . . . I don't see too many of the same era Geo Prizms. I bought mine used.

Charles of Schaumburg

Reply to
n5hsr

In the end GM and Ford still sell millions more vehicles annually in the US than either Toyota or Honda.

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

The corporate fleets love the Taurus. $18,900 for a great vehicle with the great long term dependability they need from the vehicles they keep in service for five years of 300K, WOF. $10,000 less than a similar V6 Camry or Accord. Yes you can buy one, but you can't get the $600 fleet discount. Ask to see the Fleet Sales Manager at you local dealership. $19,500 is a great price for a nicely equipped V6 full size car. LOL

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Look at the first number of the VIN. A '1' is made in the US. '2' made in Canada, '3' made in Mexico. '4' made in the US more than 40% but less than

70% American US components, (engineering, design, assembly. labor and parts etc). '5' Made in the US of less than 40% US components. Forget the parts content label, it is misleading. Camrys made in Japan with 'J' an engine and tranny made in Japan will exhibit a 70% American parts label when not a single part is made in America Camry assembled in the US will have a '4' and the Tundra has a '5.'

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Yes but does she speak of how American cars are very limited at selling there cars to Japan though Japan is allowed to dump cars in the US. Does she also talk about how the unions pretty much has the US Auto makers by the balls and the Japanese have no unions leaving more money to reinvest in new plants?

Reply to
The Bonesman

GM has to pay more than $1000 to sel each car in the US

It would cost them a lot more to export them to Japan so they can not afford to do so

The B> Yes but does she speak of how American cars are very limited at selling

Reply to
Gosi

General Motors Corp., losing sales to fuel-efficient cars from Toyota Motor Corp., is developing a hybrid-electric vehicle

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Reply to
Gosi

Just goes to show how uneducated is the American buyer. Many buyer have the misconception that imports are more fuel efficient. GM actually has more vehicle for sale that get over 30 MPG than does Toyota or Honda. ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

My Chevy Nova which I bought new in July '87 and which was built at that same plant in Fremont (not Fresno) is also still doing fine - and I still see quite a few others of the same vintage.

Not sure why you think the Corolla and Geo Prizm have any difference in quality. They were built by the same workers on the same assembly line using the same parts except for slightly different sheet metal. All the reliability surveys I've seen, such as those in CU and other magazines, showed the Prizm/Nova and the Corolla to have esentially equal records - which is just what I'd expect since they're essentially the same car.

Just bought our daughter a car that came off that same assembly line - an '06 Pontiac Vibe (twin of the Toyota Matrix). After almost 9000 miles the assembly quality appears to be excellent - despite having been assembled bright and early on a Monday morning.

We recently took a tour of that NUMMI assembly plant in Fremont. One thing that was emphasized was the difference in work attitude between when this was a strictly GM facility (1962 - 1982) and under NUMMI (1984 - present). Absenteeism on a Monday morning (i.e. when our new Vibe was mde) was almost 50% under GM and it showed in the quality of the cars. Now absenteeism is under 5% and that change is matched by similar changes in worker attitudes. And the difference is not a union vs. non-union one. The current workers are members of UAW Local 2244.

Reply to
peter

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