Maintenance Reminders redux

Elliot Richmond wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

You can bring your car someplace else, but if that someplace else is another franchised dealer, you will be faced with the same annoyance. You may even face the same problem with a well-run independent garage if you end up on their mailing list.

You see, it is the business of businesses to try to drum up business. Advertising is how they grow; part of how they manage to turn a profit and thereby employ persons (such as yourself) to perform the work that needs doing in the course of doing business.

Caveat emptor, remember? The smart buyer spends only what is necessary, and most of all, /knows/ what is necessary.

Having said all the above though, I find myself compelled to say that there is no such thing as too much service. Your car is like a woman: it loves attention and will respond well to it.

Tegger wrote in news:Xns998DD1E5312EAtegger@207.14.116.130:

I just got a service reminder for my 94 GSR that was stolen,stripped and torched the end of June. No email addy listed so I could update them and have them delete me and that car from their database.

I've already updated Carfax in case St.Farm sells the carcass and someone tries to refurb and sell it.

Jim Yanik wrote in news:Xns998DDDC4E77F8jyanikkuanet@64.209.0.87:

A sad end for a fine car.

I'm so glad I live in the sticks where I do, well away from the anarchy of the cities.

This page might be of interest to you...

It's not the annoyance, it's the deceit. If there is a maintenance schedule based on mileage, then Honda or their service departments should tell us about it. (I suspect there is.) It is also the failure to respond to my email request. That is what lost them a service customer. If they can take the time to send an emil to me, they can take the time to reply to mine. I know they are busy. So am I.

Lacking information about a "secret" maintenance schedule, my best bet seems to be to go by the owners manual (something that is often recommended on this group). The manual specifically states that I should have the car serviced when the maintenance minder says to. So, that's what I plan to do. There are no listed alternatives for more frequent service.

I do not think that going beyond service recommendations is cost effective anyway. One could change oil every 1000 miles, every 10,000 miles or somewhere in between. Where is the point at which more frequent oil changes do so little good, that they are simply not worthwhile? Clearly every 1000 miles is too often. But is 10,000 miles too long an interval?

On my previous Honda, I decided I would go with what the owner's manual said, which was every 7,500 miles, despite the local Quicky Lube's insistence that it should be every 3000. The car had just turned 200,000 miles and was running like a fine watch when it had it's collision with a concrete barrier which severely damaged the suspension.

Speaking of which, I now regret that I did not take the salvage value from the insurance and keep the car. I think I could have repaired it for less than the salvage value, especially if I had harvested good parts from the local automobile recycler. Elliot Richmond Itinerant astronomy teacher Freelance science writer

It is interesting, but this is from a company that provides (sells) service. For example, it has that 3000 mile oil change recommendation. No automobile manufacturer has a recommended oil change interval that short. Most are going to longer intervals.

Here is another approach:

Only one thing is clear. Whatever is being "sold" has a great effect on the recommended oil change interval.

Elliot Richmond Itinerant astronomy teacher Freelance science writer

Elliot Richmond wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

There is not (aside from the servicing that arises from observed need).

What the dealership is trying to do is to get you to do more work than the Maintenance Minder indicates. If you were running that dealership, you'd do the same thing. The service department is a real money maker, mostly because nobody takes care of their cars.

I think you need to ease up here.

Two explanations: 1)( They got somebody else to send out the mass mailing on their behalf, or 2) they're like a lot of companies that do very little email and thus never check it.

I agree it's pretty silly to have a published email address, send out messages using it, then not respond to replies.

It's also possible the dealership didn't want to put any answers in writing for fear of later getting in trouble. Did you include a telephone number?

You RTFM! Everybody knows you're not supposed to do that!

Not if the Maintenance Minder says it OK. That depends on the use of the specified oil, too. You can't put just any old junk in there and rely on the Maintenance Minder.

Considering your desire to abide by the Owner's Manual, I assume you will use the correct Honda-specified fluids when it's time to change them? Honda fluids are more expensive.

Yes, with one exception. The service facility I plan to use (a different Honda dealer) has always given me excellent and prompt service. Their prices have generally been lower than independents (e.g. timing belt replacement). They use Castrol GTX, so that is probably what I will go with.

Elliot Richmond Itinerant astronomy teacher Freelance science writer

Keep in mind that for the most part, those service intervals are heavily, heavily influenced by the marketing group. They absolutely need to compete on that level with everyone else who's claiming no need for service for 100K miles or whatever. Marketing groups serve their own needs, no one else's.

Also, the car makers are building them to be obsolete. And for the most part, the sheeple respond. When you see things like "7500 mile oil change interval" or "we'll tell you when", it may be true--or it may be that "if you follow our generous interval, nothing bad will happen to you during the 3 or so years you own this car before your stupid burning lust to spend $30K takes over and you go buy a new one".

For the information you're looking for, you need to find where the engineers go for beer and wings and buy them a round one night.

Going beyond service recommendations is not always a waste of money. There is a point beyond which it's throwing money away, of course. But given the variability of manufacturing, it may be that you have the engine that doesn't quite respond as well to the 7500 mile intervals as another car might--but will be very happy with a 5000 mile interval, for example.

You wouldn't know that until after the engine blew up, so what do you do?

wait--hold that--

--they're more expensive to purchase. They are NOT more expensive to operate the car with.

It's the cheapest man who spends the most.

This may be true, but I see no compelling evidence. When I was a kid in high school, an automobile with 50,000 miles was due for a major overhaul. 100,000 miles on an engine was so rare that it was a news worth event. Now cars go 250,000 miles with no replaced engine parts at all except for maybe spark plugs and timing belt. And they still have good power and compression.

I had my 93 Honda far longer than any other car I ever owned and I tend to keep 'em for a long time. It was still running great and as far as I could tell had another 100,000 miles in it. Some plastic bits had broken off, but they were easy to replace.

Elliot Richmond Itinerant astronomy teacher Freelance science writer

Let's just say that longevity at best is a byproduct of other design and engineering decisions. The main decisions have to do with lowering the cost to build the car while making people happy for about 3 years. If in the course of doing so they end up making a car that lasts longer, so be it.

So, you asked for service mileage recommendations and I gave you a link for a well researched list based on roughly 25 years of empirical evidence (one of the owners of that shop is not just a "salesman" but also has a degree in mechanical engineering). However, all you appear to have done is shoot it down since you have already made your mind up about oil change intervals. While I'm not going to argue over the recommended length of oil change intervals, I really don't care when you change your oil or if you never do, one thing seems clear to me, you have already made up your mind and really didn't want a list of service mileage recommendations or you wouldn't have shot it down simply because you disagreed with only 2.5% of the information in the list.

I did not ask for recommendations. You supplied some, I assume, in the interest of continuing the conversation. I replied with some alternative viewpoints, also in the interest of continuing the conversation.

Do with them as you wish. Elliot Richmond Itinerant astronomy teacher Freelance science writer

He asked for Honda's recommendation. You did not provide that in the least. Any recommendation of 3000 Miles on today's engines is not well researched. Not a single auto manufacturer recommends 3000 miles anymore, and there is a reason.

It is silly to suggest that they give longer recommendations in order to compete with other manufacturers. Especially for Hondas and Toyotas, which sell (largely) on a history of longevity. It is not in their best interest to give a service recommendation that will decrease said lifespan. That reputation took decades to develop, and can be destroyed in just a few short years. It would likely be the death of the products future sales.

You've never lived in the marketing world, have you?

A reputation which they don't hesitate to throw down the toilet.

Case in point: Honda automatic transmissions hooked to V6 engines. Those transmissions were CRAP for a solid 6 years. Honda knows it. Everybody knows it. Honda was run by beancounters who threw away that Honda reputation for the sake of a few shekels.

Case in point: Toyota sludge.

They may have reputations for longevity, but when it comes to saving a few pennies, they will throw those reputations away without another thought.