2006 Sonata hits 10,000 miles - a few observations

I have had this happen to me one time in my life Matt. I don't remember what type of filter it was though. I don't worry much about this kind of thing though. If the gasket is doing its job there will be no leaks and that's all that it is there for. If it does not come off with the filter, then that does become something I have to watch for in changing the filter, but not something that concerns me at all from a functionality standpoint. I would not find this to be a quality concern.

I always wipe the flange so I should always catch this, but the fact that the gasket comes off of the filter at removal is a quality issue to me. The part isn't designed to do that, and anything it does that violates the design intent is a part failure. And it greatly increases the chance that a new filter will get put on top of an old gasket and that will almost guarantee a serious oil leak. The hope then is that it gets caught in time.

I agree it doesn't affect the functionality of the filter that lost the gasket, but it may affect the functionality of the next filter if this isn't discovered. It is a failure and thus a quality lapse. I'm curious now to see how often this happens. If it happens again, I'll switch to NAPA or another filter brand whose quality I trust. But I have a whole case of Hyundai filters so that will be a while, lost gaskets or not!

Matt

Matt, Glad you are enjoying the Sonata. Great fuel economy -- I somewhat regreat not buying the inline four GLS. A thought about the unsolved dash rattle you mention. I had a similar one that took some time to locate. Mine sounded like it originated in the glovebox area. Turns out it was the wood/black trim running across the dash (divides the top and bottom colors). It was not properly seated (most likely when an audio installer pulled the head unit to connect an amp). This piece is accessed/removed with screws visible when the glovebox is open.

I'm surprised to hear your Michelins are wearing quickly. Michelin Energy tires are known to be fairly hard and long-lived. It's a good idea to report it to your dealer and have them check the alignment.

GeoUSA, moderator

"GeoUSA" wrote in news:1154277526.176177.98370 @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

These tires are rated high, but always wear fast. I can't find too many people that managed to get the expected wear out of them. This is my third car with them and I've had to replace them at between 20-25K miles on all. Mind you, they were't worn out at that mileage, but once you hit 1/2 of the tread life on just about any Michelin, you will notice a dramatic decrease in traction, especially in the rain or snow.

Eric

Mine sounds like it is coming from the glovebox also so it may be the same thing. I plan to have the dealer take a look at it again this winter when it happens more repeatably.

Yes, I'm surprised also as I've had exceptional mileage in the past from Michelins.

Matt

That sounds about like the trajactory I'm on. I'm still hoping for 40K, but I suspect I'll be lucky to get 30K.

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote in news:J38zg.116$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.epix.net:

On my last Elantra, at about 25k on the tires, we had a long dry spell. The tires were still great until it rained. I almost lost control a few times that day, but figured it was just all the oil on the road from such a long dry spell. Three more good rain events and they were still like driving on slicks. I bought a set of Dunlops that wore down to the wear indicators (about 50,000 miles) and never had a problem like that.

Eric

I had a friend with a Honda Accord that had his oil changed at the dealer and the gasket stayed on the engine. They didn't catch it and by the time he got to work, the oil 'idiot' light came on due to lack of oil pressure. The second gasket had blown out and dumped the oil. The dealer gave him an extra 3 years warrantee on the engine.

Tom

Therein lies the difference in how we look at these things. I look at that issue as two separate parts that can come apart with no problem in my mind. You see them as a quality problem. Two different perspectives. Both solved by the same technique of paying attention to the job at hand.

Having worked in a Fortune 500 company for many moons and growing up with TQM, this is easily a quality problem. Quality is defined by most quality professionals as "meeting the requirements." I'm not aware of any requirement for an oil filter to leave its gasket behind on the engine. Very few parts are designed to come apart during or after use.

Since I'm pretty sure this oil filter wasn't designed to leave its gasket on the engine, when it does so, that is a failure.

Whether a failure of a part causes a greater failure of another part isn't relevant to whether the first part has experienced a failure or not. I agree that it is easy to mitigate the filter failure with some careful attention, but that doesn't change the face that the Hyundai filter failed.

Matt

Considering that you're the only person who has reported this here or on any of the forums, it's probably an isolated incident. Did you remember to oil the seal before you installed the filter?

I usually get 40K from my truck tires. I recently noticed my last set was

50% worn after 5K! I examined the tires closely, there were a bazillion micro-cuts. I figure it's from frequently traveling a certain road that was recently re-surfaced with small, sharp gravel. I'll be staying off of that road for a couple of years until it breaks in! :)

Brian Nystrom, on a thread about a gasket (o-ring) on a spin-on oil filter, that got left behind on an engine, and caused problems when a 2nd oil filter and gasket was installed, asked: "Did you remember to oil the seal before you installed the filter?"......

You hit on it Brian. Over the course of years, I have had several of those rubber o-rings that have fallen off the brand new oil filter as I was taking them out of the boxes. I really do not know how well they are initially placed onto the filter (or how well they are supposed to be). I have just 'laid' them back in there and it seems to be fine.

But in each case, I have put a film of oil on the o-ring before I put (spin) the filter into place. Every time, that has done the trick, and the o-ring and filter come off just fine and together. In fact, now that it has been mentioned here, I realize that this little trick must work extremely well, because although they have fallen off for me coming out of the box, I have never even had to think about the o-ring still being on the engine filter mount after they have been removed.

Clearly some of the filter companies are thinking about making sure they come off though. Some of the better filters have the o-rings coated with PTFE (think Slick 50). But it could be that this is for the percentage of people who don't put a film of oil on their filter o-rings (there must be at least some who don't). In my world, I don't see it as needed.

I do agree that doing the job right helps make sure that can't happen. When my filters are off, I am inspecting and cleaning the engine filter mounting base, wiping off oil, checking its condition, etc. If the o-ring stayed behind, I just can't believe that between seeing that it is not on the filter I just took off and seeing that it is on the base I am cleaning that I could ever miss that - it is just too obvious.

So, in my world, this is not a manufacturing defect. It is simply a sloppy (and downright inexcusable) job by the person who changed the oil. In that sense, what the dealership did (the extended warranty) was probably appropriate.

I will say that, when I was a teenager, I had my oil changed once by a garage. This was one of those old-style cartridge types. Along with the filter came an o-ring. But replacing it was a separate and much more tedious process, and I think most people just threw those away.

But the owner of this garage surmised that the filter maker must want you to replace it or they wouldn't have included it in the package. So he always did. At the particualar time my oil was changed, one of his workers, a young man who went to my church, did the oil change.

Sadly, he also added the new gasket without taking the old one out. I spotted the stream of oil in my driveway and even followed it a quarter mile down the road, and realized something was very wrong. I called the garage, filled the car with oil, got it back there and fixed, and all was well. The worker was fired.

I wonder if the worker who did this to this man's car suffered the same fate, since this was much easier to do and see than what happened to my fellow church-mate??

Tom Wenndt

It's been my experience that the original factory filter leaves its gasket with a much higher frequencey than any installed later. I suspect it has something to do with surface preparation and how tightly the filter is installed (originals are rather tight).

You'll notice your new oil filters have a clear plastic covering over one end. More freqently, I encounter the gasket sticking to the plastic, so when you take it off, make sure the gasket is still positioned properly before installing the filter on the car.

Mr. Hyundaitech, this just begs a question.

It was through the owner's (or service) manual of car after car I have owned that I learned how badly oil filters and oil drain plugs were being overtightened.

If the manufacturers set the tightening specs, why do they not adhere to them? Indeed, every new vehicle I have ever owned has had both tightened plug and filter even tighter then they are left after a fast oil change - and that's saying something.

In my world, either the specs mean something or they don't. What am I missing here?

Tom Wenndt

Sadly, I don't think you're missing anything. Most likely, the manufacturer has more important places to concentrate their resources unless this constant overtightening actually results in physical problems.

You'd think that with computerized robotic assembly plants, they'd be able to control something like this very well. What's worse is that you're right. The factory will put the oil filter on tighter than some monkey who thinks he needs to put it on as tight as he can with a wrench so it cannot come off.

Absolutely. I'm hoping it is an isolated incident also. Time will tell.

Matt

In my case it was the third filter that lost its gasket. The original filter came off at 2,500 miles and the second one came off at 5,000 miles. The third one came off at 10,000 miles, but left its gasket behind. It is the first filter than I have run for 5,000 miles.

Matt