A case of death wobble today

Yep. I'll find out this week if the caster is right.

Thanks Roy.

Terry.

Mike Roma> He has a custom front end that sounds like it wasn't built properly. >

My stabalizer is attached to the tie rod that runs between the tires, it is not attached to the rod that connects to the Pitman Arm. It is clamped to the axle tube near the pumpkin, and to the tie rod near the left tire. This does not apear to be as described in the FSM.

I am not sure why you have a trackbar, and I wonder if you really mean the anti sway bar. After watching your responses, I don't think you are confused about the trackbar and the swaybar, but I just had to mention it, just in case ...

In any case, what you describe takes me back to either an incorrect Caster Angle, or worn parts, most notably the ball joints or tie rod ends, or any combination of these. Since you have a "new" D60, I have to wonder if the Caster was set properly. there are shims (that look similar to a door-stop that one might wedge under a door to hold it open), that can help you to set this angle.

confirmation

On another note, you keep using the term DW, and you seem to tie the experience in with trackbar problems. The only influence the track bar will have is on holding the entire front end in place. DW, by definition, is a problem where the TIRES are working against each other and they set up a harmonic vibration that we call DW.

The trackbar ought not play a role in this sort of problem.

But, what if the spring bushings or some other similar part was not working properly? The track bar would serve to hold the front end together and mask such a problem. When the trackbar had finally had enough of this abuse, all hell would break loose, and we might describe the experience as DW.

I just wanted to throw that out because you keep saying that all of steering parts we have been talking about are new and serviceable. Perhaps these parts are exactly as you said, and the trackbar does solve the problem. My guess is that the trackbar is, at best, masking the real problem because a trackbar ought not play any role whatsoever in DW.

BTW, Lighten up on Mike. He is just exploring the possibilities. Of the respondants on this board, he gives the most consistantly objective views, and he is right far more often than he is wrong.

Well, if the caster is off I'll find out this week. I agree that perhaps the track bar has been masking the caster problem all along. No confusion about the track bar and anti-sway bar. I have one of those on too (with the disconnects).

I know what you're saying about Mike. He offers great information all the time and we all appreciate it. I certainly do. His info has helped me on more than one occasion. Thanks Mike!! I don't post too often in here, but hang out alot for the information. His (and your) posts have always been extremely helpful. I meant no offense to Mike or anybody else, just conversing as well as I know how over this darn computer. ;). Also know that I'm no expert on certain Jeepin' subjects (that's why I hang out here!), but I'm no greenhorn either and do keep intimately familiar with my old Jeep and how she handles, runs, etc, and don't take shortcuts when it comes to building her. It's a bad habit I can't seem to shake!

Thanks, Terry.

Terry Jeffrey did pass the time by typing:

Also check the wheels for tread depth and roundness. I've had dw caused by wheels about 1/16 different in tread depth. (the tire store put the two "best" wheels up front) After putting the two most equal diameter wheels up front dw went away.

Last cause was a thrown wheel weight.

First cause was a stuck shock valve. (edelbrock IAS)

I'll do that. The 35" MT/Rs I have are getting old (about 2.5 yrs old) but I'm keeping them until springtime when I will be in a better position to afford a new set. When I take her in for a caster check this week, I'll have the mechanic also take a look at the tires and wheel weights. The Jeep got new front Rancho RS9000X shocks when I did the front-end upgrade, but I'll check them out too.

Thanks Doug.

Terry.

I wonder on the track bar.

Please fill me in on what you have so I can at least play 'devil's advocate' with all the info I can get.... ;-)

A stock YJ with the soft flat leaf springs came with a track bar.

The CJ's before it with stiffer arched springs didn't come with, nor do they need a track bar, nor do the lift kits call for one.

You have 35's and a Dana 60 in the front????

I would then think you might just have a lift of some sorts??? Does the lift call for the track bar or is that something the shop added to make up for a possible death wobble issue rather than re-make the spring perches to get the caster right or to make up for a bad u-joint and axle angle issue?

Do you have tall shackles per chance that the axle builders didn't know about. That can crap out the caster big time.

Mike

Terry Jeffrey wrote:

Mike,

A few specs on my 92YJ Jeep:

- 35" tires

- custom Dynatrac built D60 in both front and back

- SUA with RE extreme-duty 4" lift springs

- Confer 1" lift shackles in front

- 1/2" MORE lift shackles in the back (levels it out nicely)

- 1.25" JKS body lift

- TJ flares

- Hi-steer arms on the knuckles, tie rod mounted on the bottom

- Adjustable JKS track bar.

Total of 5 3/4 - 6.25" of lift (most suspension). When the front-end was built, they took all this info into consideration and I gave them several measurements (running width of existing drive axle, spring pads distance, etc, etc). Not to say the caster could still be off, though. This front-end has about 3000 miles on it, and no problems at all with this configuration until I encountered the DW the other day. At first inspection, I found the track bar loose on the frame side mount. I had been considering taking it off anyway, so at the time I temporarily removed it just to see how the road handling would be.

I installed the front-end and track bar, springs, etc. No shop involved here. I got the aftermarket track bar to replace the original and have been using it for, oh, 6 years or so. Never a problem with it. Why a track bar? Because the YJ came with one originally. The spring company nor the Dynatrac recommended a track bar. If fact, Dynatrac suggested removing it.

More than one person has advised me that I don't need the track bar, but I will be putting it back on anyway. Even though it may mask the real cause of the DW, I still take comfort in it being there! It is aligned in perfect angle with the drag link. I'll know this week if the caster is off and needs a shim or two. My guess is that's got to be the real problem, but we'll see.

I bought this old Jeep new in late '91 and she now has over 203,000 miles on her and still runs great with original 4.0L and tranny.

Thanks again Mike. Hey, I didn't mean to come across as a wise-a** last post to you. Some thought I sounded that way.

Terry.

Ok, so you have a custom, built all to crap unit, eh....

I have one pretty easy check 'maybe' for you...

On a stock Jeep front end, the pinion face is straight up and down.

So the proper caster angle corresponds to a straight up and down pinion.

Mike

Terry Jeffrey wrote:

Sorry Bill, until YOU take reponsibilty for YOUR actions, you=20 will have to simmer in your own stew. And you appear to be=20 simmering pretty good.

I used to have the real address until the Sven virus hit me with=20

4mb of crap per HOUR. Which of course took my e-mail down pretty=20 solid after 9 years on the same name. So I will NEVER put my=20 e-mail address in a public forum again. Sign of the times I guess. :(

I'd suggest you wait for Terry Jeffry (the original poster) has=20 his front end checked out. If an INDEPENDENT mechanic/shop checks=20 out the massive amount of work that was done on the OP's front=20 end and the ONLY thing that is wrong is the stabilzer, I will=20 gladly appolgize for aggrevating you so much. And then I will=20 repeat my comment that a stabilzer just masks the underlying=20 problem.

Cheers.

L.W.(=DFill) Hughes III wrote:

Exactly.

-- Jerry Bransford To email, remove 'me' from my email address N6TAY, PP-ASEL See the Geezer Jeep at

Wait a second there, I take responsibility but use a fake email address. I am not opposed to the discussion I generate, but I can't stand the spam that I get when I use my real address.

It appears to have been an optional part as late as '81.

I happen to agree that the stabalizer is probably masking a more serious problem that if it was not there, the DW symptoms would not be so severe.

If the steering stabalizer by itself fixes this problem, I'll be seriously amazed. It could, I suppose. But I think there are underlying problems at play here.