BULLFROG CLUTCH

When they replaced the clutch at 7500 miles, what else did they replace? Sounds like a master/slave cylinder issue.

Take it to another dealer.

I really don't know what they replaced. To the best of my knowledge, they replaced the clutch assembly with a new clutch. The dealership I took it to thought the first clutch was sticking on the way back out due to the pressure plate getting too hot. I don't know if they replaced the master/slave cylinder when they worked on it. I will find out though. If they didn't, I am going to take it to another dealership and ask that they check those parts to see what shape they're in. Thanks for the information.

Did they give you a reason why the pressure plate was getting too hot? Like if the clutch was never fully engaged and it caused slippage and the friction caused overheating. The pressure plate normally wouldn't overheat unless something was malfunctioning. Maybe the slave cylinder overheated as well and they never replaced it.

So in other words, if this new clutch is working fine (except after it has been driven for awhile), but the old clutch caused the master/ slave cylinder to have problems, then the master/slave cylinder would be causing this new clutch to act a little wacky as well? The dealership did not give me a reason as to why the pressure plate was getting too hot.

The only thing I don't understand is that if I drive 35 miles to work one way and only use the clutch VERY minimally (just to go one mile to get on the highway from town), why would the clutch make that funny noise and have that "rubbing" feel when I get off the highway even though I have not even touched the clutch to shift (until I get to the town I work in -- 35 miles later)?

pm, "Matt Macchiarolo" wrote:

OK. Here is what I found out. The parts that were replaced are as follows: clutch/pressure plate kit, hydraulic parts, clutch actuator, and the release bearing. I don't know what any of this stuff is, so hopefully someone can help me out. The man at the dealership I spoke with did not know if this kit included the master/slave cylinder, but he was going to check into it and would know tomorrow afternoon. THANKS

The man at the dealership I spoke

That is likely the 'whole' problem....

A bad master keeping pressure on the pressure plate causing that to overheat and smoke out. The MC Jam is now finally making noise at the 'source' of the troubles, not the symptoms.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Will this bad master cylinder now cause the new clutch kit and parts to need to be replaced yet again?

If that is the 'source' of the issues, for sure.

TJ's have had issues with the pedal shaft and it's linkage and the strange new style of interlock switch, (clutch must be down for starter) already in the past. If that safety switch was jamming, it could hold the MC 'on' which can cause your burned up clutch troubles and noise. Or the MC could be just bad...

Mike

THANKS for the information. I have now found out (according to the Sevice Dept manager) that the 'noise' I am hearing is somehow due to the clutch fork (plate?) fingers. This is all foreign to me.....could you explain what he is talking about?

THANKS AGAIN

If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, then baffle 'em with bullshit...??

Could you please explain in detail 'where' you hear the noise and where the 'rub' feels like it is when the engine is off and you depress the clutch pedal? A second person listening might help.

I can't really see a 'rubbing' feeling be transferred via a back feed in the hydraulic system 'from' the clutch fork all the way to the pedal so your foot feels it.

Mike

Sure....here goes. The noise is heard whether or not the engine is running. The noise nor the rubbing doesn't happen when starting up for the first time during the day -- only after being driven for approx. 30-45 min. With the engine running, when I push the clutch in slowly (but not real s-l-o-w) I hear the noise when the pedal is about

2/3 of the way to the floor and the noise continues until the pedal is in all the way. It will make that 'croaking' sound every time (kinda like a spring on a screen door that has been stretched too far). Once in a while, I can also hear and feel the 'rubbing' noise in addition to the 'croaking' when the pedal gets just about to the floor. It almost has the feel of two pieces of rubber rubbing together (that 'resistance' sound). When the engine is off, I get the same exact thing ('croaking' and all) except that the 'rubbing' occurs every time I push the clutch in (vs. once in a while with the engine running).

Now, here is a new wrinkle that I noticed last night after I had written these posts. When shifting from 2nd to 3rd last night (with the clutch in), I heard a faint grinding sound (almost like taking a wood plane and trying to shave a piece of metal with it). This just started, but I have a feeling it is related to this whole problem.

Another thing that has been occurring that I think has something to do with this whole situation is once in a while when taking off from a standstill, I will hear a single 'popping' noise from the front of the jeep. This happens when I start the vehicle (with the clutch pushed in of course) then I let the clutch out slowly to take off. Well, when the clutch is on the way back out (about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way back out) I will hear this 'popping' noise. It is not a series of 'pops', just one single 'pop'. I have also taken the jeep to the dealership about this 'popping' to have everything from the sway bar, ball joints, u-joints, suspension components, etc. checked out, but nothing has been found. Of course, when I take the car to the dealership, I cannot duplicate the sound for them. But the last time I was at the dealership, I'll be damned that after I started her up and started to take off, she made that 'popping' noise. I hadn't even gotten 2 feet! Man, was I pissed.

Anyhoo, that is the best that I can describe this stuff for you. I sure hope you can get the feel of what is going on by my description. I really do appreciate you taking the time to try to help me out. THANKS!

UPDATE: I have discovered that the master/slave cylinders were NOT included in the clutch kit; hence they were not replaced.

Tracie,

I can't find a pic of an '06 slave cylinder, and I don't have an '06, but let's proceed with the service manager's suggestion of the clutch fork. Imagine a tuning fork -- the forked end straddles the transmission input shaft, and the solid end protrudes from the side of the clutch enclosure (bellhousing). An external slave cylinder, when activated, pushes on the solid end, pivoting the fork about midway so that it, through a bearing, applies pressure so as to release the clutch. That's a tough idea to get one's head around, but it's a general description.

I'll put money on the notion that the creaking sound is coming from the aformentioned "midway" pivot point on the fork, though occasionally it can be felt from the split end of the forks or on the bearing (throwout bearing) it slides fore and aft to release/apply the clutch. These are all points that must receive a small amount of specific lubricant in order to make the 100/150k before a transmission gets pulled -- something's dry as a bone, and you can't get to it without tearing it apart.

The noise, while able to be felt from the inside, should be very audible to your or your helper's ear from underneath the Wrangler. Heat and vibration will often lessen or eliminate the noise -- but it's good (for the sake of diagnostics) that you can make it happen with the engine off.

Chances of the slave cylinder on your '06 binding up through ?a bad boot and corrosion? and causing this noise is slim, real slim. They would have swapped it out right quick if only to get you out of their hair, and on Chrysler's dime.

It's not a fatal flaw just yet, but it should have been done right the first time. Hope this helps to visualize the problem.

Jon

That fits with the symptoms.

Your noise description still points to the pedal shaft on the MC binding up. The popping can even be the 'jam' letting go and releasing the shaft.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

THANKS for all of the helpful information. So, if I am understanding everything correctly, the master cylinder AND slave cylinder needs to be replaced and the throwout bearing needs to be lubed. Now, what about the parts that they have just been replaced? (clutch actuator, release bearing, hydraulics, and clutch kit) Do they all need to be replaced again as well? Am I missing anything else that needs to be replaced or should at least be looked at? I just want to know so that I know what to tell the dealer when I take it back in for service.

Mike --

Is the clutch pedal shaft and linkage the same thing or have anything to do with the clutch push rods? I did find a TSB out for my year and make jeep for these parts; however, my jeep was not manufactured during the 'specified' time frame. Of course, that's not to say they didn't miss something or didn't quite fix the problem prior to manufacturing mine.

Yes! That 'push rod' and it's sliding switch is the part I think is bad! Either it is physically bad or the MC it pushes on is physically bad.

If that is the bad part, then for sure it has damaged the new clutch kit.

Mike

I thought maybe. THANKS!!

I will keep you updated on exactly what the problem was when I take it in to the dealer for a look-see. I'm sure you're right....from all the posts I have read in the past you usually are. :D

OK....just to sum everything up -- if the 'push rods' and its sliding switch are bad and/or if the MC is bad, then those parts will need to be replaced AND the new parts that were just replaced (clutch actuator, hydraulics, release bearing, and clutch/pressure plate kit) will ALL need to be replaced again. Just for good measure, the throwout bearing should be greased as well. Am I missing anything? Do you think the slave cylinder would need to be replaced as well, or just the MC?