Hey Mike... if the strap breaks the dowel will still fly right?? or is it a
50/50 thing that it may fall out??is this the way you say to attach them??
Jeff
I have seen a video of that method failing. The dowel went ballistic.
I was talking about the method Bill posted. When the dowel or stick fails, it just crushes and the knot gets tighter.
Rope _will_ come untied, we found out after spending a day dragging our 9 ton boat off a hard shoal...I don't know about strap tho.
Seahag
"Rusted" wrote:
That's what my husband says too. He says it is the 'approved method' of joining two straps together.
KJK
The tow or snatch straps normally used off roading is 2" wide for tow and 3" or 4" wide for a snatch strap (elastic factor). They look like overgrown lamp wicks and are good for 20,000 to 30,000 lb or more.
They 'usually' come with loop ends already on them. Sewn loops are far better than clamped ones.
Bill gave a link to a good diagram of looping two together here:
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail >
That is THE 'most' dangerous way to do it and would never be allowed on any organized run or any RAMJ+W (newsgroup) run we put on.
If one strap breaks, the D-ring 'will' go ballistic and it can go through the windshield, then through the driver, then through the seat and out the back window. People get killed that way.
See:
See:
Chain is only good for towing, not snatching.
Snatch straps are good for extractions, not towing.
The snatch straps have about a 20 or 30% stretch factor so when you are coming up on full extension, the strap acts like an elastic band that will slowly come up tight and in theory pop the stuck vehicle loose. There will be no hard impact.
If you try to use a tow strap or tow chain for this, they come up hard and you 'will' break something.
One gent from here had a new strap he wanted me to use to pull him out of deep snow. He was told it was a proper snatch strap. Wrong... It was a tow strap and when it came up hard, it tore my rear crossmember off!
The elastic factor is what makes any metal ends deadly missiles if something breaks and makes for a real lousy tow strap. It goes boing boing boing when trying to slow down the towed vehicle. With a chain or proper tow strap, you can gently ride the brakes in the towed vehicle to slow down with no pulses.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail >Easy there big boy.... Don't get all shook up.
I understand the theory and the logic, as does my husband. I was just tossing in another opinion, that was offered from over my shoulder.
Keep in mind, that the slings that he (my husband uses) are in heavy construction. Much larger than anything any of us would use, and for different purposes such as lifting as with a crane, not pulling.
KJK
: > That's what my husband says too. : > He says it is the 'approved method' of joining two straps together. : >
: > KJK : : That is THE 'most' dangerous way to do it and would never be allowed on : any organized run or any RAMJ+W (newsgroup) run we put on. : : If one strap breaks, the D-ring 'will' go ballistic and it can go : through the windshield, then through the driver, then through the seat : and out the back window. People get killed that way. : : See: :
Man! Talk about Forrest Gump syndrome (Stupid is as stupid does)
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O : mailto: snipped-for-privacy@aol.com : : Carl wrote: : >
: > D-shackle, if they have loop ends. : >
: > Carl
Sorry about getting all worked up there, I have just seen too many dumb things when it come to proper gear use....
He is using construction straps or slings then.
These are a 'totally' different animal than the 'elastic band' type of snatch strap that is normally seen off road.
They are like a chain or tow strap with no give and a shackle or D-ring is fine to use with them, proper even. :-)
Our straps stretch like crazy when trying to pull someone out of mud and never come up hard so the kinetic energy stored in them is massive.
Mike
"KJ.Kate" wrote:
It's good to see someone passsionate about safety. Hubs is a safety nut too, yeas as an Operating Engineer has him very contientious about such things.
Sorry if I yanked a knot in your tail. BUT If I hadn't, think of all the things I might have never learned :) Thanks for the clarification!
Personally, I am prone to asking a ton of questions and learning as much as I can from those who have been there before I have. In the case of straps like these, I have no clue so am soaking up as much information as I can.
Now I have really learned soemthing but I am still not so sure about putting a stick in the middle. Be it a chunk of hickory or whatever in the middle. It still sounds dangerous.
KJK
: > Easy there big boy.... : > Don't get all shook up. : >
: > I understand the theory and the logic, as does my husband. : > I was just tossing in another opinion, that was offered from over my : > shoulder. : >
: > Keep in mind, that the slings that he (my husband uses) are in heavy : > construction. Much larger than anything any of us would use, and for : > different purposes such as lifting as with a crane, not pulling. : >
: > KJK : >
: > : > That's what my husband says too. : > : > He says it is the 'approved method' of joining two straps together. : > : >
: > : > KJK : > : : > : That is THE 'most' dangerous way to do it and would never be allowed on : > : any organized run or any RAMJ+W (newsgroup) run we put on. : > : : > : If one strap breaks, the D-ring 'will' go ballistic and it can go : > : through the windshield, then through the driver, then through the seat : > : and out the back window. People get killed that way. : > : : > : See: : > :
Metal fittings can and will become lethal projectiles in case of strap failure.
Right, if one of those straps goes, they will follow the path of the straps, and when lifting there is usually no one in the path of the straps. Not so on the trail. Shackles have their place in off-roading but not as a primary recovery connection point...better used when strapping a pulley to a tree, for example.
It does have its risks but less so than a metal fitting. When using this method I will also hang a packing blanket or coat over the dowel to help slow it down if something gives. Similar to what you would do with a winch cable.
When you have the two loops from the two straps hooked, they are a solid mechanical connection with no chance of letting go short of snapping the strap.
The stick just sits jammed between the two loops. It has no function other than to be used as a pry bar to get the sucker apart. The loops will get snugged together tight. You can do without it and use a metal pry bar like a tire iron later to try and pull them apart.
If the stick fails, all it can do is crush and fold, that is why one person mentioned using a cut down axe handle. The handle is unlikely to crush.
If however, the stick is used as a mechanical part of the connection, when it fails, it 'will' go ballistic, I have seen it happen. It doesn't try to impail the driver like a D-ring would, it goes out sideways after the spectators....
Mike
"KJ.Kate" wrote:
What I find amazing as an observer to this thread, once a defect has been established in a method, why do people continue to defend their point? Using a D Ring or any other object to connect 2 straps can be dangerous. Notice, I didn't say it "IS" dangerous. Many things are dangerous while 4 wheeling. If you see someone take a line and get stuck, do you usually take the same line, or do you look for a safer way of getting around the obstacle? If you see someone roll their ride, do you take the same line? The answer of course is NO. So after an explanation of the perils when using a D ring or other mechanical device to connect 2 straps, why would you consider using that method, much less trying to defend your point of view. We've been told of one friend losing his life, I don't know if it has happened more than this one time, but do you want to be the second? And if you do, what's it mean to me? Other than I can tell your wife that "I told him so". So, do what you want, follow the rules of your club, if you belong to a club. Don't put other people in harms way. Don't put yourself in harms way if someone want to do something stupid. Have a nice day and I hope to see you on the trails.
Jim Smith (Soapbox Designer)
You know Jeff, that link you are showing the unsafe use of a dowel as a mechanical part of the link appears to be written or copywrited anyway by a John Cranfield, the same gent who lost his eye from the unsafe use of a high lift jack.
Seems he likes to live dangerously....
This is the safe way:
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