Putting two tow straps together???

That makes sense.

I appreciate all the responses folks...

On Sunday myself and a couple friends went out for some snow wheelin' and seemed to have all the traction in the world even in the deepest of snow...so we decided to venture into what we call the rail system...it's a very old trail that has worn ruts that you'll drag your pumpkins over on

33's (when there's NO snow!)...my buddies (a YJ and a XJ) both on 35's were struggling but making it...I on the other hand (33's) got half way into the trail and spent 90% of the time high centered enough that the wheels would hardly touch the ground if they would at all....I winched my way forward a couple times till the winch gave out for the night (mind you it was day when we entered)...I then was taking tugs from my friend in his XJ and it got worse and harder to pull me through...kind of like taking the axles off and trying to pull the Jeep through snow ice and mud... the 20' strap wasn't long enough so we attached two 20' X 2" 30,000lb straps together with a wooden dowel exactly like in Steve's illustration... after a couple serious HARD pulls to get me going, the strap snapped on my side of the dowel and the strap with the dowel still attached raced it's way through the back window of the XJ and all the way through to smash the front as well... fortunately no one was hurt... I'm not sure if I ever will do it again...I'll spend the money and put two together permanently... It just makes me think that in all the clubs, where family are out and these methods are practiced with family members in the vehicle...it makes me think that the guy in Michigan isn't the only person that has died this way. Just the strap alone that flew back at my Jeep caved in my front grill nicely right next to the drivers headlight...I couldn't imagine what would have happened had the strap broke on the other side of the dowel...it prolly would have to come right back through my windshield and killed me. anyways back to the trail...we then put two new straps together and ripped his heavy custom bumper right out of the frame (no rust in sight) on the passenger side...we wound up letting the YJ pull me backwards as we fought our way back out of the trail in reverse with our tails between our legs...

Jeff

"Mike Romain" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@sympatico.ca...

Well, tying two straps together is inherently risky, but assuming you know that, I would ONLY use the straps that have loops on each end -- NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE STRAPS WITH METAL HOOKS -- and run each strap through the loop on the other. This will connect the two straps in a manner that they can be undone later.

Got it Will... just curious, why not just carry a longer strap? DO they not make longer ones?

: > Sorry if I yanked a knot in your tail. : > BUT : > If I hadn't, think of all the things I might have never learned :) : > Thanks for the clarification! : >

: > Personally, I am prone to asking a ton of questions and learning as much as : > I can from those who have been there before I have. In the case of straps : > like these, I have no clue so am soaking up as much information as I can. : >

: > Now I have really learned soemthing but I am still not so sure about putting : > a stick in the middle. Be it a chunk of hickory or whatever in the middle. : > It still sounds dangerous. : >

: > KJK : >

: > : > Easy there big boy.... : > : > Don't get all shook up. : > : >

: > : > I understand the theory and the logic, as does my husband. : > : > I was just tossing in another opinion, that was offered from over my : > : > shoulder. : > : >

: > : > Keep in mind, that the slings that he (my husband uses) are in heavy : > : > construction. Much larger than anything any of us would use, and for : > : > different purposes such as lifting as with a crane, not pulling. : > : >

: > : > KJK : > : >

: > : > : > That's what my husband says too. : > : > : > He says it is the 'approved method' of joining two straps together. : > : > : >

: > : > : > KJK : > : > : : > : > : That is THE 'most' dangerous way to do it and would never be allowed : > on : > : > : any organized run or any RAMJ+W (newsgroup) run we put on. : > : > : : > : > : If one strap breaks, the D-ring 'will' go ballistic and it can go : > : > : through the windshield, then through the driver, then through the seat : > : > : and out the back window. People get killed that way. : > : > : : > : > : See: : > : > :

> : > : : > : > : Why is it so difficult for folks to just use the loops provided to put : > : > : the two straps together????? It is simple and idiot proof and not : > : > : likely to fail with deadly results. : > : > : : > : > : See: > : > : : > : > : Mike : > : > : 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 : > : > : 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's : > : > : Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! : > : > : Aug./05 > : > : (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page): >

: >

: : : -- : Will Honea

WOW! Quite a story. Did you have to change your pants? I think I might have had to.

Glad it was a near miss not a serious incident.

KJK

: > Seems he likes to live dangerously.... : >

: > This is the safe way:

>

: > Mike : >

: > 4X4PLAY wrote: : >>

: >> Hey Mike... if the strap breaks the dowel will still fly right?? or is it : >> a : >> 50/50 thing that it may fall out?? : >>

: >> is this the way you say to attach them?? : >>

: >>

>>

: >> Thanks for the responses guys...I just wanna make sure that I can be the : >> safest I can be on the trail...I'll explain why in my next post... : >>

: >> Jeff : >>

: >> > 4X4PLAY wrote: : >> >> Any safer means of attaching two straps together, than with a wooden : >> >> doweling and still be able to get them apart?? : >> >>

: >> >

: >> > Although it's usually used for rope, a Zeppelin Bend or Rosendahl Bend : >> > (same knot) will fit the bill: : >> >

: >> >

>> >

: :

Get any photos?

Mike

4X4PLAY wrote:

unfortunately I didn't take any pics of the strap with the doweling in it...

Wow, glad no one was hurt.

Could you imaging the devastation that would have happened if you had a metal D-ring in there instead of a stick?

You mentioned you switched to new straps. How old was the one that snapped and was it barked up or mangled in the area it failed? Or was it just too old?

Mike

4X4PLAY wrote:

This is why i will only use a strap for a minor pull, and the winch for tough ones. What kind of winch were you using that crapped out?

My husband says: Dang! That's Sierra Frikkin Delta!

"4X4PLAY" wrote in message news:IcAqf.2482$km.597@edtnps89... :

: : : : : : : : : : : : : unfortunately I didn't take any pics of the strap with the doweling in it... : : Jeff : "Mike Romain" wrote in message : news: snipped-for-privacy@sympatico.ca... : > Get any photos? : >

: > Mike : >

: > 4X4PLAY wrote: : >>

: >> I appreciate all the responses folks... : >>

: >> On Sunday myself and a couple friends went out for some snow wheelin' and : >> seemed to have all the traction in the world even in the deepest of : >> snow...so we decided to venture into what we call the rail system...it's : >> a : >> very old trail that has worn ruts that you'll drag your pumpkins over on : >> 33's (when there's NO snow!)...my buddies (a YJ and a XJ) both on 35's : >> were : >> struggling but making it...I on the other hand (33's) got half way into : >> the : >> trail and spent 90% of the time high centered enough that the wheels : >> would : >> hardly touch the ground if they would at all....I winched my way forward : >> a : >> couple times till the winch gave out for the night (mind you it was day : >> when : >> we entered)...I then was taking tugs from my friend in his XJ and it got : >> worse and harder to pull me through...kind of like taking the axles off : >> and : >> trying to pull the Jeep through snow ice and mud... the 20' strap wasn't : >> long enough so we attached two 20' X 2" 30,000lb straps together with a : >> wooden dowel exactly like in Steve's illustration... after a couple : >> serious : >> HARD pulls to get me going, the strap snapped on my side of the dowel and : >> the strap with the dowel still attached raced it's way through the back : >> window of the XJ and all the way through to smash the front as well... : >> fortunately no one was hurt... I'm not sure if I ever will do it : >> again...I'll spend the money and put two together permanently... It just : >> makes me think that in all the clubs, where family are out and these : >> methods : >> are practiced with family members in the vehicle...it makes me think that : >> the guy in Michigan isn't the only person that has died this way. : >> Just the strap alone that flew back at my Jeep caved in my front grill : >> nicely right next to the drivers headlight...I couldn't imagine what : >> would : >> have happened had the strap broke on the other side of the dowel...it : >> prolly : >> would have to come right back through my windshield and killed me. : >> anyways back to the trail...we then put two new straps together and : >> ripped : >> his heavy custom bumper right out of the frame (no rust in sight) on the : >> passenger side...we wound up letting the YJ pull me backwards as we : >> fought : >> our way back out of the trail in reverse with our tails between our : >> legs... : >>

: >> Jeff : >>

: >> "Mike Romain" wrote in message : >> news: snipped-for-privacy@sympatico.ca... : >> > You know Jeff, that link you are showing the unsafe use of a dowel as a : >> > mechanical part of the link appears to be written or copywrited anyway : >> > by a John Cranfield, the same gent who lost his eye from the unsafe use : >> > of a high lift jack. : >> >

: >> > Seems he likes to live dangerously.... : >> >

: >> > This is the safe way:

>> >

: >> > Mike : >> >

: >> > 4X4PLAY wrote: : >> >>

: >> >> Hey Mike... if the strap breaks the dowel will still fly right?? or is : >> >> it : >> >> a : >> >> 50/50 thing that it may fall out?? : >> >>

: >> >> is this the way you say to attach them?? : >> >>

: >> >>

>> >>

: >> >> Thanks for the responses guys...I just wanna make sure that I can be : >> >> the : >> >> safest I can be on the trail...I'll explain why in my next post... : >> >>

: >> >> Jeff : >> >>

: >> >> wrote in message : >> >> news: snipped-for-privacy@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... : >> >> >

: >> >> > 4X4PLAY wrote: : >> >> >> Any safer means of attaching two straps together, than with a : >> >> >> wooden : >> >> >> doweling and still be able to get them apart?? : >> >> >>

: >> >> >

: >> >> > Although it's usually used for rope, a Zeppelin Bend or Rosendahl : >> >> > Bend : >> >> > (same knot) will fit the bill: : >> >> >

: >> >> >

>> >> >

: :

Just my perspective, but 95% of what I use the strap for only needs

15-20 feet of length and that's more than is fun to handle when it's wet, cold, and muddy. Usually, anyth> Got it Will...

I try to make that a habit .

A bowline reduces the strength of the rope to about 60-65% of the original strength, then you get the remnants of the broken knot in the face, etc. If you tie them 'backwards' then the rope is only good for

40% of its original strength. A serious climber would never use a bowline. For joining two unlooped ends of a rope or sling nothing beats the "Rosendahl Zeppelin bend" ... an official US Navy knot used on blimps doesnt bind with strain and fairly easy to loosen. Its probably the strongest knot ever found for joing two lengths of rope/web/sling. The double loop with a dowel doesnt jam together, the dowel prevents the 'over-ride'./ jam.