I am moving from down south the frozen wasteland otherwise known as the northeastern US. I drive a CJ with automatic KC locker up front and manually controlled air locker in the back. I have heard that lockers aren't the best for driving on snow and ice but it's too late to change it now. Just wondering, what do I need to know and be on the look out for when driving in snow and ice with this vehicle?
The low side of the road....
A locker helps starting out, but once moving an open diff tracks straighter. If both wheels spin, it will go sideways 'really' fast. With the open diff and one wheel spinning, the other wheel acts like a rudder to keep it going straight.
Also on corners at intersections if you are in 4x4 it might just plain want to go straight. Mine does and I have open diffs even. I have gotten into the habit of dropping to 2 wheel drive if I plan on making a left at an intersection. I then drop back to 4x4 once going straight again.
You also might want to upgrade the heater blower motor. The stock one will not defrost the windshield. Period. You will need a scraper in one hand to see. I went with the bigger blower and all the windows will clear now. It puts out more on low than the stock one did on high.
It is not a difficult swap. A motor out of a 73 full sized Blazer with a 350 and AC fits right in and the fan fits right on it. You just have to trim the hole in the firewall a bit bigger to clear it. Here is a link on that mod:
sm3gurpal wrote:
Excellent advice. It is true that open differentials in four wheel drive setting and systems like Selectrac, Quadratrac, etc. will let you drive faster on snow and ice, heh, but you don't really want to do that. Just slow down and you will be all right.
Colorado cops practice winter driving on a frozen lake by Georgetown. It is a lot of fun to watch them. If you can find an empty snow covered parking lot or a lake (better be cold though!) to practice on then you will feel a lot better from the practice. Remember to turn your wheels in the direction of the skid...
Earle
Approximately 11/20/03 10:56, sm3gurpal uttered for posterity:
Don't lock it. The auto locker should only kick in if you are experiencing poor traction... and being in front should do less to throw you off path than if in the rear.
If you are driving at city speeds or so is when a limited slip, locker, etc. can throw you in the nearest ditch... BUT this only happens if you do something stupid like stomping on the gas.
In heavy snow with ice, the locker can keep you from walking for help.
Approximately 11/20/03 11:48, Earle Horton uttered for posterity:
Yeah, and slowing down can be a bit of a good trick... with none of that awd helping a bit. I actually like lockers or limited slip in icy conditions, the trick is to keep them from engaging unless you are under a couple miles/hour. Once ditched a !@#$ Impala with a locker rear end by getting stupid on a city street at only about 10mph.
...and tape a raw egg under your gas and brake foot. Trick to driving on ice/snow is to do nothing fast. Bummer, but in a lot of cities any more practicing your ice driving skills will get you busted. Dunno how dads teach kids any more unless there is a good frozen lake nearby.
I remember long ago in driver's education in high school that my instructor took us out to a frozen parking lot and made us get in trouble so we could get out of it. It grounded me for life in that I do things automatically now that others need to think about first. Therefore I agree with the concept of practicing a lot, especially in a Jeep. Once you get the hang of it it can be lots of fun under the right circumstances. Cheers! Tomes
I still do that with every new vehicle and I highly recommend to anyone to find an empty parking lot and go nuts come first snow.
I have attracted the attention of the police on occasion also.
When they pulled up I told them I was checking out how a 'new to me' vehicle handled under skid and fast turn situations in the snow, they said 'great, we wish more folks would do that'.
I was even a teen the first time they saw me doing that, still no issues except a warning about 'stunting' being an offense but they liked what I was doing.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT'sTomes did pass the time by typing:
That mirrors the best advice given to me back when I belonged to SCCA. We had the good luck of being able to use an old drivers ed course. Complete with skid pan. :)
When we get a good coating of ice or snow I hit the local shopping centers parking lot and do donuts and evasive moves. Been stopped twice by the police, both times they just told me to be careful and that they wished more folks would learn how to drive. Last time they also asked me to give them a hand pulling another squad car out of the ditch.
Actually for having no lockers and the open quadratrack diff it was surprisingly easy. Didn't even need to use the poor-man's locker. (e-brake)
sm3gurpal did pass the time by typing:
4WD will get you going faster than 2WD, but your going to stop the same as any other vehicle. Drive slow and avoid sudden changes in speed or direction.On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:48:19 -0500, Mike Romain shared the following:
OK, the original poster didn't say if he had manual locking hubs up front or not, but if he does and he isn't in 4WD then the locker up front wouldn't have any effect at all on his driving, right? And the locker in the rear is a manually controlled air locker so as long as he didn't engage that it also wouldn't have any effect at all on his driving, right?
-- Travis
Right and right.
He will really need to practice driving with the front hubs locked. He has a CJ like mine that comes with open hubs and a manual lock.
I drive in the winter with my front hubs locked if I expect snow so I can just toss it into 4x4 anytime needed.
Mike
I do that every year once there is enough snow on the ground. Its just hard to find an empty lot now, Not like when you and myself were younger and you could go to the Woolco parking lot on a Sunday afternoon ;-)
Yep, done that a few times too,, they were suspicious as to why someone was doing donuts and skids in the parking lot of a closed beer store..
They had cars back when you was a teen??? lol,,, couldn't resist...
Snow...
Just a word of caution about using the parking lot: do some scouting and make sure you don't pick one with those damned blocks in the parking slots. Boy, do they every mess up a good broad slide!
That front locker could be a killer. The first 4x4 I owned had a very good Posi-traction on both ends and the one in the front came out immediately after the first snow. It wasn't the go part or the turn part that got me, it was letting off the gas and suddenly becoming a
4-pt hockey puck. BTW, that's one other SLOW DOWN point on snow/ice: take your foot OFF the gas just as deliberately as you put it on - nothing quick is a good rule.
make sure you don't pick one with those damned blocks in the parking slots. Boy, do they every mess up a good broad slide!<
When I was a kid growing up in NW Indiana we had snow and cold like you can't believe. My mom had a rat '54 Chevy that I drove and after work one night I took it into a Jr High parking lot and did donuts with a couple of buddies in the car. One trick I did was to go headlong into big piles of snow, which one guy thought was the most fun he's ever had. A few nights later he gets the keys to his dad's new Buick and tries the same stunt, only drives headlong into a pile of snow covered cinderblocks! (Dad was not amused.)
good Posi-traction on both ends and the one in the front came out immediately after the first snow. It wasn't the go part or the turn part that got me, it was letting off the gas and suddenly becoming a 4-pt hockey puck. BTW, that's one other SLOW DOWN point on snow/ice: take your foot OFF the gas just as deliberately as you put it on - nothing quick is a good rule.>
Onme other thing, CJs and the northeast aren't a good combination where rust is concerened. I'm not sure what to tell you to do, as any rustproofing I've ssen done on them really never works out very well. Might be time to make it a summer only vehicle.
---snippy---
Nothing lasts forever though. You can have fun with it, or you can let it sit in the garage looking pretty all winter. The choice is up to you.
Earle
Playing in the snow is a great learning tool.
If you have center diff (Full Time) 4wd like some XJs you can do hand brake turns. They're a great way to pivot the truck around tight turns when the front just wants to go straight. A real hoot in a vacant parking lot. This is one technique the rally car drivers use to get around those 270 degree forest road turns so fast - pivot, point and shoot.
Doesn't work well with Part Time engaged tho....
From
Parking/Hand Brake Turn
Applies To: FWD, RWD, AWD without limited-slip/locked centre differential, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VII Usage: Turning the car around very tight hairpins and turns, even on dry pavement. Destabilizer. Theory of Operation: The hand brake is connected to rear wheels only. Applying the hand brake will cause instant loss of traction in the rear, making the rear slide out. Instructions: If in a RWD or AWD, press clutch pedal until release of hand brake.
For super tight turn: Turn the steering wheel half a rotation in the turn direction and apply hand brake for as long as you wish to rotate. Ideally the car should nearly stop moving all together by the time you are done rotating. Let go of hand brake slightly ahead of the time you wish to stop rotating. The higher the speed, and the more slippery it is, the harder to stop the rotation.
For destabilizing: Turn the steering wheel half a rotation in the turn direction and apply hand brake for a brief moment - only enough to cause sideway sliding of the rear wheels. Then re-engage clutch and come on the throttle.
Notes: Works very well (and should never be used other than) at low speeds. AWD cars with a centre limited-slip or locked differential will also lock up the front wheels when applying the handbrake. Lancer Evolution VII has a computer controlled hydro-electric clutch that automatically disengages any locking when hand brake is applied.
UNQUOTE
They claim the front wheels will also lock in a limited slip center diff vehicle - I haven't found that to be troublesome or even noticeable. As they say, you mileage may vary.
If you have a Wrangler, take the wife's Camry out and try it some time.
John Davies Spokane WA USA
Approximately 11/20/03 22:16, Will Honea uttered for posterity:
? I would think you should be able to see any block big enough to bust a fender. Those lane blocks are just high enough to give you good practice for the next time you run the Rubicon in snow...
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