2007 Defender

I've just had the pleasure (or not) of driving several brand new Defender TD5's and they were universally bloody awfull. What on earth posessed them to design the engine with no power below 2500rpm I do not know, but frankly my IIA gives better pulling power.

The Disco 3's I drove all had the 2.7TDV6, which is a much more impressive engine, plenty of torque and power (although admititedly nowhere near the 4.4V8 in the RR Sport) and coupled to that 6-speed auto it was remarkably nice to drive. Despite the bloody annoying electronic handbrake.

Alex

Sheer laziness of fat Americans who can't be bothered with normal handbrakes.

Alex

"Alex" wrote

Not just Americans, how many people do you sit behind in a queue that use their handbrake? They all sit there with their foot on the brake blinding you at night and then roll back if on a slope when they try to go.

It wasn't badly done within the confines of what they had to work with. The independent ones behaved better on road and were ok off road until the going got tough. The problem appeared to be a lack of travel on the front suspension but without a really serious redesign it wasn't going to be fixable. I guess it comes down to crappy engineering, or at least having to keep them affordable.

Unfortunately that sort of design isn't particularly suited to good on-road handling.

All built up to a spec rather than down to a price which means they will never be mainstream affordable vehicles.

With the electronic handbrake, you can't release it unless you put your foot on the footbrake and press the switch at the same time. Which makes it rather pointless using the handbrake, you might just as well keep your foot on the brake in the first place.

If they wanted to fit an easy, convenient, effortless handbrake then an air-brake would have been far better.

Alex

Until you factor in the necessary systems to make one operate. I fecking well hate air brake system maintenance.

Take a hard look at a Tatra 815 truck, which has swing axles (simple independent suspension) and you realize that the Tatra can keep the wheels on the ground and provide a smooth ride at speeds that would confound just about any other big truck with solid axles.

I believe that your (Brit) military Pinzgauers use a similar suspension.

US military Hummers have an all-independent setup.

I don't have any dog in this fight but suspect that independent suspension in the new Defender is inevitable and possibly a step in the right direction, if they can make it halfway reliable.

--PirateJohn--

A Disco II isn't that much better... I can't say I notice any difference in fuel consumption with the AC (well climate control, left on "auto") on or off and when the sun is out and the external temp above about 22C the AC is very nice indeed. Bit of a shock sometimes when you open the door from a nice comfortable enviroment on to a humid oven...

I can't argue with that! B-)

You can feel the turbo start to work at about 2000 on mine.

It's happy at slow speeds in almost any gear provided you aren't in hurry but does lack "go" unless you drop gears to bring the revs up to 2000ish. After that it'll pull pretty much right up to the limiter at 4850(ish), if you can stand the noise... I rarely take mine above 3500 and generally that is accelerating up a moderate hill and knowing that the next gear would drop the revs to

"beamendsltd" >>

Those figures are probably LR marketing bullshit. Defender sales nationally are appalling and this is acknowledged by the trade if not by LR. I travel extensively all over the country and have seen a huge decline in new Defenders about which coincides with a huge increase in working [as opposed to the parallel huge increase in 'leisure'] Eastern or Oriental built pick-up sales. Most of the LR Defender sales must be from Derbyshire to the North then, where I travel least [mostly Wales], and they must sell huge volumes there if their overall sales are at record levels. I cannot believe that there is a huge surge in demand abroad either. The Defender has never really caught on as it should have in mainland Europe and certainly was never particularly popular in 90'' wheelbase form. Most 90's were always sold to UK farmers who want the towing capacity and to the military. Military sales have also declined drastically as LR has not developed the product to meet their needs either. IMO LR have accidentally lost the plot, or possibly made a management decision not to develop the product to bring it up to modern needs and standards. Either way, that is their choice.

Huw

"Kalev Kadak" wrote

Car salesmen [for that is what he is] have near zero product knowledge as a general rule. LR have only spent the minimum possible to continue production of the Defender caused by emission regulations killing off the rather lacklustre TD5 engine. Live axles will continue or I'll eat my hat. There will be a new engine and a new gearbox and transfer box because the continued production of the old items is uneconomic now that the low-volume Defender product is now the sole user of those components. I expect a chain driven transfer box from possibly ZF. Hopefully it will have synchromesh between low and high ratio, possibly a motor driven change.

Huw

I suspect you are confusing the overall increase in 4x4 sales, often to the new(ish) "Life-style" market, with a decline in LR's sales. LR's percentage share of the market is cerainly dropping, but that's not the same as unit sales, which are rising. The market is growing (well, actually it fell slightly last year).

Defenders sell well to EU utility companies and Police etc, particularly Italy (notably the Mpi Defender contract for the Italian Police), and even to the French elericity company (a direct result of UK elctricity companies taking their Defenders over there to help after their big storms a few years back). Most EU countries have tax/legislation probelms that restrict Defender sales to private owners - hence the

Richard

On or around Sat, 19 Aug 2006 00:24:55 +0100, "Huw" enlightened us thusly:

seems to be a mixture round here - quite a lot of doublecab pickups, but there are still people showing up in new defenders as well. And quite a lot of discos, including some new ones, although most of the discos are

Part of the slow steady death of the original concept.

Nope.

Huw

Bigger pics here

It sounds like people are knocking together something of a wish list for a new defender.

1. Long stroke 4-pot engine (like the 300 Tdi but then some)
2. Galvanised chassis, bulkhead and generally anything that has to be steel
3. As this is a utility vehicle no unneccessary bits and bobs
4. Simple construction (making repair and maintenance cheap)
5. Basic architecture suitable for configuration how the end user wishes (plaything for Chelsea, basic rugged p-up for a working life, etc.)

Ibex with 2.8l Powerstroke engine (the 300Tdi made under licence in Brazil but increased to 2.8) then?

Cheers C

Definately. Just the job.

Forward to LR, and get them to cross-reference the above specification with.......... the Series I design brief, i.e full-circle with coil spings!

Richard

Car industry will stick to any engine, which can pass EURO4 (5)emissions criteria nowadays. I bet it's the main reason why Td5 will be ruled out and good-ol'-4-pot will be even more mysterious powerplant, unless whole production and market will move to Brazil or China or such.

Kalev