300tdi timing belt/modification kit ?

hi, does anyone know where cheapest place to obtain the 300tdi STC4095K timing gear/cover/idler kit is. via mail order preferably .
ive just changed my timing belt and the engine doesnt have the modified idler or crank gear .
noticed 6mm all along edge of removed belt had worn away and so want to put it right .
had thoughts of going for ZEUS timing gears but after reading info on an australian website i dont think i will bother , seems the zeus gears are prone to failure , perhaps lack of oiling i guess ?.
does anyone use the zeus gear kit , are they ok or not , or is it better to stick with timing belt and use modification kit as per tech bulletin .
TIA ian
.
.
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why would Land Rover not modify it or contribute since this has'nt been done yet and it is a mod.
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On 15 Nov 2003 21:48:21 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (M0bcg) wrote:

Although I don't have personal experience of the Zeus gears I have driven a Discovery with them fitted. Aside from some increased clatter when the engine was idling - which went away once moving - there wasn't anything noticeable about them.
IIRC they're made from nylon (or some such plastic) and don't therefore need lubrication, but I could be wrong. I do seem to recall reports of failures a few years ago, but haven't heard of anything like that recently.
HTH
Steve G
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Hi Ian,     it is interesting to read your opinion of the Zeus gears after reading one website. I know the website you refer to and can only say that all is not exactly as it appears.
There are many happy users of the gears, myself included, and after 75000km without a problem, as compared with 103000km on 4 x timing belts, I think I am in a good position to comment.
We have many users with high km, and longest we know about is 250,000 miles, which is 400,000 km. The kit was checked while the engine was being reconditioned (piston with hole in it) and put back into the reconditioned engine.
You may like to see some of the other benefits that come from the gears as far as performance and economy go ( www.yican.com.au)
I see also that one reader has suggested the gears are made of nylon or similar-quire wrong. All gears are steel with nitrite hardened teeth.
Yes I do have a commecial interest in the gears, but this only came about because of my experience with the timing belt, and then a detailed examination of the Zeus gears prior to becoming the Australian distributor. Later I became even more involved taking a role within Zeus UK as GM. Biased yes, but hopefully on an informed basis.
Yes there have been failures, and where ever possible we have sought to examine the product/engine/circumstances etc to try and identify causal factors. In many cases we have identified incorrect fitting as a problem, with the fitting of the cam gear being a common issue. We have also seen a problem with the small idler gear, which has come about around the same time we started to hear about variations in the diesel fuel and the reduction of the sulphor level. As part of an ongoing R&D programme a modified small idler gear was made, and we are in the process of advising existing customers of this fact.
If you would like to discuss any issues relating to the Zeus gears please feel free to give me a call, or send me an email.
Cheers
Phillip Simpson
On 15 Nov 2003 21:48:21 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (M0bcg) wrote:

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This subject came up before on this newsgroup but the person selling the Zeus gears ignored questions posted publicly. Maybe it would be a good idea to post discussions here? At the moment, I have an open mind (as I think do others) -- but if all discussions are to be behind closed doors, that might change!
BTW, I recently bought a '98 300 Tdi from MacRae & Dick of Inverness with about 70,000 miles. It was clearly a trade in and I bought it without warranty. A bit of detective work soon revealed that it had been serviced by a non-authorised garage and the mechanic had never heard of the timing belt problem so no modification kit had been fitted when the belt was changed about 6,000 miles ago. He did say the belt was fine though.
MacRae & Dick agreed to supply the kit "at cost". The invoice for Kit 2, including VAT, came to 70.79 and the oil seal was a further 19.07. I do know the discount was only 10% off the retail on the latter. It would be interesting to hear some prices from other sources.
Derry
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Derry Argue tried to scribble ...

I just had RCV of Doncaster do my '97 300 Tdi 60,000 service. We bought it in early sept at 55400 on clock, with FSH and wanted to keep this going .. ;)
They noted that the modified parts hadn't been fitted and did so. The bill came to 413 altogether, and the parts for the modified timing belt pulley etc came to between 65 and 85 - the invoice is a little unclear, so I reckon 70 is about right .. ;)
They said that, as with your case, the belt was fine and would possibly have been OK. However, I prefer to be more sure and requested they do it anyway.
Further to this, I'd like to add a note of thanks to RCV, they did a good job and we'll certainly use them again. Nice to report good service, with a smile, and obvious enthusiasm for Landrovers.
--
Digweed
.... ;)
  Click to see the full signature.
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On 16 Nov 2003 07:00:55 GMT, Derry Argue

Hi Derry,     the only reason I suggested he give me a call or send an email, was that as we are both in Australia, and given timezones etc, it is simply a matter of convenience. Besides even if we do speak by phone there is nothing stopping him from posting comments after the phone call.
I am on the public record as being a strong advocate for the Zeus gears. I also believe that some of the material published as "facts" are upon closer examination, derivatives based upon 2nd or 3rd hand data, that is then presented as if it were facts. Such material only serves to confuse anyone from making informed choices as part of their research.
I'm not sure what question you are referring to, when you say that a question was ignored. Please let me know what it was and I will look into the matter.
Cheers
Phillip
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As I've posted, I got the modification kit which I have yet to install. As far as I can remember, the question of the price of the Zeus gears came up and the guy who was pushing them promptly disappeared! The world is such a small place these days that international borders don't mean a lot and it would be nice to know what things cost, even if they are somewhere else! Hey, maybe someone here will import some from Aus?<G>
Derry
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Hi Derry,     one of the problems facing manufacturers is the shrinking and disappearing borders, when it comes to the issue of pricing and international pricing policies. With the internet people are able to purchase "across borders" more easily and this presents a number of problems. These include issues of warranty and also looking after and protecting the local distributor network system.
As a matter of policy I don't quote prices in an open forum, to avoid issues relating to the above issues. If someone living in the UK want a UK price then they are best to contact the local company, and someone in Australia the local Australian company.
I can assure you that there is no benefit in importing these kits from Australia, as they would be more expensive, and I would not entertain the idea as it is against everything I believe in as far as international marketing and such matters relating to policy.
Hopefully you will find this explanation makes sense if not, please let me know.
Cheers
Phillip
On 16 Nov 2003 17:17:24 GMT, Derry Argue

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Sure, you don't want to quote a price. That is easy to understand!
Derry
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On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:43:45 +1100, Phillip Simpson

Phil,
As a potential Zeus customer I have to say that failure to clearly quote prices is a big turn off to me. Your UK people have now provided me with a quote for the bits I need (nowt to do with timing chains BTW) but it would have been much easier and transparent had I been able to get them from the website. Your competition are just as bad though...
I'm a natural cynic and suspect that this has more to do with wanting to quote as much as the seller can get away with for the customer you are talking to than vague, unspecified issues of cross-border trade. These 'issues' are easily dealt with - quote a sterling price on a UK website, $AUS on a com.au website and refuse to export to territories where you have a local presence. Illegal in the EU of course, but no issue for Australia.
My company doesn't quote prices either, but that is because we often deal with quantities of 1 and often with quantities of 100. Our buy price changes dramatically in those circumstances. I don't see that this applies to Zeus.
I think this is why Paddock's get such good volumes - you can see a picture, see the price and order it in the middle of the night. I understand you sell more specialist stuff, so need customer contact to make sure people don't try and fit your conversion kit to a Ford Fiesta, but that can all be done in an 'e-trade' environment without full online ordering.
Tim Hobbs
'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i
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Hi Tim, interesting to read your feedback on this issue. Like your own company we have our policies, and as a custom based OEM manufacturer we do sell volume based products.
Sorry that you find not publishing prices a turn off. But this is something we'll just have to cope with. As a manufacturer, Zeus is in a different position to someone like Paddocks, and as such present to the market in a different way. Would you purchase your 101 disc brake kit simply off a commercial webpage, or because of the special nature of the product and its cost speak to the company involved?
When you spoke to the Zeus office, did you get some other benefit(s) from taking to the manufacturer, or did you just get a price?
Perhaps to ask the question another way, what price break would purchase over the internet in an eshop? 50 pounds, 200 pounds, 500 pounds?
It may interest you to note that for single item purchases Zeus use a standard internal price list, and not as you suggest a moving upward target. If you had asked the price of say the stainless steel pistons at Billing 2002, and then Billing 2003, you would have found the price to have been the same. Apart from a show "special" price for qty the price quoted would have been the same as if you rang the office and asked for a price.
While I expect the best we can do is to disagree on this issue, I would however add one more point, and I think it is one that applies to forums in general. All participants need to know if the person responding to a question has a commercial interest, which is why I try and always identify my own position on this matter. Secondly, I think that it is a good idea to address technical issues in an open and frank manner, even when it is from a commercial based source. Issues relating to pricing and costs, crosses over into an area of selling that is outside the purpose of forums. Otherwise they simply degenerate into disguised advertisements and the associated haggle and bussle of a market place, and become swamped with such issues. By simply keeping to technical or such related matters, the forums etc continue to be a good resource for people seeking answers to questions.
Cheers
Phillip
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:42:39 +0000, Tim Hobbs

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Phillip Simpson wrote:

It may well be you won't screw us, but usual bitter experience has shown us that whenever we look at the foreign prices for things, the UK cost is well over the odds: It is typical to find for example US dollar prices DOUBLED for the UK market. At which point suppliers bleat about import duty, shipping etc, but the reality is that the 100% markup is usurious.
Steve
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Totally agree though being of a timid disposition was hesitant to say so. Off topic but what particularly annoys me is the difference in prices for Honda quad parts between the USA and here. The UK Honda dealers were trying to tell me major UK parts are all made to metric dimensions whereas the US parts are in imperial. Yeah, right! As if Honda (all made in the USA) has two factories, side by side, one producing Imperial parts (at half price), the other all metric!!
Derry
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Hi Steve,     I'm in full agreement with this line of thought, and it is something I have always found frustrating in various o'seas markets when reviewing pricing. The only thing you should factor in is the effect of volume, as generally most things in the States are cheaper in most market sectors because of their purchasing volumes-just look at computers and other electronic bits and pieces.
In the case of the Zeus products, these are UK manufactured, and priced in UK pounds, based upon UK cost structures.
Cheers
Phillip Simpson
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:06:24 +0000, Steve

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Phillip Simpson wrote:

Hi Philip,
Also fair comment, but believe it or not UK products can sometimes be cheaper bought IN THE USA AND RE-IMPORTED.
As Adam Smith put it
"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."
Steve
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Hi Steve,     well I doubt if you can do this with the Zeus products, as the distribution policy is strict as to which markets distributors can sell to. In the case of the larger kit type products, eg timing gears etc , this is simple to monitor as each has a unique serial number.
What you refer to is not just for some consumables or spare parts, as if I remember correctly it is cheaper to buy a new LR in Holland than the UK (?)
Still each company has to determine their own policies with respect to domestic and export pricing, and from there stick to such policy.
Don't know Adam Smith, but given that we manufacture and design our own unique products, quotation is not applicable, if I may be so bold as to suggest.
Cheers
Phillip
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:21:19 +0000, Steve

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Phillip Simpson wrote:

Thats a good for-instance !

And we, the customers who buy it, will do our level best to get the best deal, by whatever subterfuge is necessary at any time.
Steve
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On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:08:18 +1100, Phillip Simpson
I knew someone would put me right. Thanks for the info Philip.
Regards Steve G
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thanks for info .
have mailed some companies ref : prices .
will wait till i receive some replies as to availability .
one tip though for anyone changing theyre own timing belt , watch you dont lose the o rings from the engine oil cooler pipes , they have tendency to be missed and only stay in the radiator holes because the oil helps them stick around !!.
for a decent 2.5td/200tdi/300tdi crank pulley puller and timing/pump pin locking kit go to www.difflock.com for a cheap comprehensive kit @ 89+vat . i bought one last week, glad i did !!. cheers .
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