Bleeding Brakes

I know it's a bit late now but not letting them drain would have been a fairly good start.

OK EMB, but you tell me how to do that when you are replacing the pipework between the master cylinder and brake caliper. Yes you can stop the fluid leaving the reservoir but you still have air in the new pipes and calipers you know.

I am just asking if there is any trick for the Defenders. I have done enough other hydraulics in my life. If no trick I will do it the normal way!

David

David uttered summat worrerz funny about:

Having spent some happy hours on a Rangie just make a note that there is probably more than one bleed nipple per caliper. Oh how much fun I had on a dark wet winters night learning that the hardway.

Lee D

Lee, thanks.

Thank goodness only one per but I have no doubt it will still be a bugger of a job at midnight after the grapes have been picked.

From the land of Landies, the wine growing foothills of the Pyrenees.

David

David uttered summat worrerz funny about:

Ohhh where abouts are you then? We've been over that way this summer in the

110.

Biarritz with a few trips out to Pau, a nice mountain village called Laruns, Sare and in to Spain to a place I've promptly forgotten the name off.

All beautiful places and would love to have stayed longer.

Lee D

Lee

Other end of the range. Just inland from Narbonne in the Corbieres. Great tracks, great wine and, mostly, sun.

But no Landrover parts places that have bits at decent prices. Agents yes but all Genuine Landrover bits at high prices only.

Easier to mail order.

David

David uttered summat worrerz funny about:

I will get over to your side someday, seems more travelling but I will do it.

I trust you've found our local (to this group) Landrover parts guru.

Lee D

On or around Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:20:15 +0200, David enlightened us thusly:

yeah, the 4-pot ones on the Discos have 3 per caliper. 110s have a different brake split arrangement.

some vehicles, especially the ones with 2 circuits per caliper, have a "correct" order. I don't think the 110 does though.

Plus of course he didn't read, his insult about the poster not being intelligent enough to stop the reservoir emptying came just one paragraph after the poster saying he knows you can do it but there'd still be air in the lines and calipers.

Heigh ho, nothing like spleen venting to stop the screen being readable.

His original post reads:

That is what I replied to - because the *last* thing you ever want to do with a brake system is to let it drain out.

It was this bit I was referring to;

--------- David wrote:

If you can't work out how to change the flexible hoses without letting the reservoir empty then you're not intelligent enough to be working on something as important as brakes.

---------

EMB uttered summat worrerz funny about:

Surely the air from the new pipework is going to slowly but surely make it's way up to the master cylinder in anycase which makes all the above a bit of pissing in the wind with brake fluid all over the bulkhead and manifolds. Bunging the pipes isn't going to be air tight and shoving a bolt in is likely to f*ck a pipes flange and may lead to brake failure from a later leak.

No one yet seems to have mentioned the old bag over the filler hole and re apply lid trick but fer fecks sake don't forget to take the bag off after. I usually tie another bag to the steeringwheel as a reminder - simple but it works.

We all have to learn somewhere and it's far better to ask here than to spend several hours working yourself stupid and then have to take it to a mechanic who forgets who puts the bread and butter on the table and thinks no one else has a clue. Sometimes it actually suits people to get a grease monkey to do work as it's costing them more (in time and money - though rarley I may add!) to do it themselves.

My father has also taken vehicles to supposed "experts" who cross threaded a hose in a caliper resulting in fluid loss that could have quite plainly killed some bugger, so even people who should know better get it wrong.

There are no stupid questions (only stupid people) as I often remind my staff.

Lee D

WTF are you going to do with the bolt?, dog it up with a strong arm FFS, and why do you think it needs bleeding ASAP when refitted? Can you not screw in a bolt only finger tight and not get it in cross threaded? And if it's bled straight away after refitting the air is not going to make it's way up. There's no helping some people, dunno why I bother. And yes, I've had to sort out lot's of amateur's FU's in my time.

Martin

Oily uttered summat worrerz funny about:

I've re read your bolt suggestion - hands up my mistake! I thought you were suggesting inserting a bolt in to a union along the brake line and not the master cylinder. If it had of been the brake line it would be all to easy to f*ck the flange on the pipe and would almost be necessary to provide a seal. Closer attention to your suggestion of sticking a bolt in the master cylinder seem ok in principle but as the OP wasn't working at the master cylinder end but the caliper and flex end that has led to my confusion re your suggestion. I missed Asutins change of tac with the metal pipe replacement.

Please accept my humble appology for trying to help.

agreed

Woooha, take a chill pill dude you'll bust a blood vessle!

:-)

Lee D

Glad I managed to stir up a hornets nest by asking in the first place.

From some 40 years of owning and servicing Landrovers and also running the systems, including hydraulics, on an ancient commercial barge I have learnt one thing. That there is the book way of doing things and the right way. What is "INTELLIGENT" is to ask for any comments from helpful and enthusiastic others who have attacked a specific job in case there are any tricks to a quick and easy bleed. Some want a turbulent bleed and others a gentle bleed. Never seen that written down. You don't just ask when you have something that has gone wrong Mr EMD.

Clamp the flexible? Yes a good enough trick for a garage who doesn't care about life of the parts. On removing one of the flexibles it was clear that someone had tried one of those before and on the new design pipes it is not a particularly good idea. Oh, the LR had been serviced only by a garage before I bought it! Much better, and you loose less liquid, if you use a soft cap over the nipple - just a little "hint" EMD.

And yes, as someone suspected, I had had to remove an intermediate pipe as well. Blocking the reservoir does help but not much as it then dribbles for the few days it takes to get the bits out of LR. Much easier to just let it all out and give it some nice new dry stuff throughout.

By the way, why do the intelligent LR designers fix it so that you cannot just take the caliper off its fixings and swing it away with pipe still attached. The rigid pipe runs just over the fixing bolt. I guess the garage would advocate bending the pipe but not for me I am afraid. (next job - to make up 2 new pipes so that they don't block the bolt)

Anyway, this unintelligent chap managed just fine thanks as he has done many times before. The first ever lesson I learnt was when I put my first car into a garage because I diodn't trust myself to do the brakes. It came back with overtightened and binding drums, leaking unions and an exhaust bolt that was hitting the hydraulic pipe and caused it to break. My motto - don't trust anything to a garage, their life doesn't depend on checking the job, mine does.

The new electronic engines are a bugger though! Especially out here where knowledgable LR agents are like hens teeth.

End of interest but thanks to all those helpful guys around who understand what it is all about.

Thanks from David, (For EMD - puts "unintelligent" thumb in ear and designs, turns up and welds another fix for his 50 year old barge engine with no parts available! A bit for the injector pump this time. Thank goodness I am an amlateur - reply from normal suppliers is "aint't got no bits mate!")

< The old ;ore supple types zere okOily uttered summat worrerz funny

Hold on a minute, no apology needed, there's lots of ways of doing the job, I reckon I learn something every day, and sometimes off here, some damn good suggestions on here that I would never have thought about.

LOL I am chilled, didn't mean it to sound that bad. :-)

Martin

i generally let mine drain out as im lazy and it keeps the weeds down on the drive ;) Means my brake fluid is always nice and new too since i have to take the calipers off every year to molest the hand brake adjustment ready for its MOT. ;)

Is the IIa getting a pampering this year? I can't recall the last time you pampered it. It'll be snowy before you know it.

Lee D

i started it about 6 weeks ago and moved it a bit (it was in the way of progress). Started quite happily and ran okay but it full of spiders and junk. Still need to drop the rear prop and strip the handbrake down and weld up the backplate. Not sure when i will get to it. Dont like working on the handbrake as its wet and oily under there...