Brakes wont bleed

Check the brakes are properly adjusted first.

Forgot to add - yes, the brakes were properly adjusted.

Even tried adjusting them so the shoes were locked against the drums, still no joy.

Fluid might not be leaking out, but air could be getting in. Thats what ive always reckoned with mine anyhow! Its also possible for slave cylinders to suck in air, or not work properly, even new ones (especially if theyre the cheap ones IME)

a few things-

Double check that you have all the unions nice and tight.

Have you adjusted the pedal height/travel (the 2 nuts on the master cyl shaft at the top of the pedal box) - Is it pushing the cylinder all the way in when the pedal is pressed? The new master cylinder may differ slightly from the old one.

Are the shoe adjusters on the back of the drums adjusted properly? You could have too much travel on the slave cylinders which is why you brakes are too far down the pedal. I always adjust them by tightening them until you cant spin the wheel, and then cracking them off a notch or 2. Do this before you try bleeding again.

One of my mates always used to recommend, if you were having trouble bleeding the brakes to try adjusting them all up so that nothing should move and then try bleeding it. If you had any pedal slop left then you have a leak.

You could also try clamping off the flexy pipes in different combinations to try and work out where you problem may lie. Ive traced the fault to one corner doing this.

good luck

I see adjusting the brakes has been suggested.

Is the Eezibleed one that pressurises the reservoir or the type that sucks via the bleed nipple?

I think in pumping the brake pedal you could be moving the air around the system.

When you say you lift the pedal do you mean you let it fly back?

I can only think the depression is causing air to bleed past the wheel cylinder seal, my mate had this on a 101 using pattern seals, cured by using the proper part. He was using the vacuum bleeder run off a compressor, apart from this problem with duff seals it was the best way to get around problems with the load valve on the 101.

AJH

On or around Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:47:31 +0000, snipped-for-privacy@despammed.com enlightened us thusly:

FWIW, I've gone off replacing seals in slave cylinders unless the cylinders aren't available. they never seem to be reliable - I reckon the cylinder wears as well, and by the time the seal's shot, the cylinder is oversize and maybe not round, so the new seals don't fit right or don't last as long.

You shouldn't have to pump the pedal and apply braking pressure before any fluid will be expelled from the wheel. It should be open nipple, depress to floor, close nipple, return pedal. Alternativly you can use an one-man bleeding kit, which has a one-way valve, removes the need to keep opening and closing the nipple. Don't bother with those ones that are a lenth of rubber tubing with a slit in them, they're crap

Check the adjustment to make sure the shoes are rubbing against the drum, not wound in. Easy mistake to make.

If no joy, bleed, clamp all 3 hoses down with hose clamps and see if the pedal still required pumping. If the pedal still requires pumping to bring up pressure, then the master cylinder is at fault.

If the pedal goes hard, then you shouild suspect the flexible brake hoses. If they perish from the inside, they collapse and stop the fluid flowing properly. This makes it impossible to bleed the system.

From what you say about air constantly coming in, I think you will find the fault is with the Master Cylinder. I had very similar conditions to what you describe just recently, changing the M/C cured the problem.

Alex

According to the S2 manual the technique depends on which of the two different master cylinders you have. Do you know if it is CV, or CB type. CV type should look exactly the same as the clutch master cyl. The CB is bigger, and according to the manual its shape means air gets trapped in the CB's bulbous back end. It says fluid should be forced in at 14PSI. and the outlet pipe slackened to allow air to escape. It then says "In extreme cases......it may be helpful if the front of the vehicle is raised so that the master cylinder is horizontal whilst bleeding the brakes" I've tried all that on my 1959 S2 and the pedal is still a bit spongy. I think I might try a new master cylinder!

Cheers John PS. have you made sure there is a bit of free play on the M/Cyl push rod?

Ditto this... and some seals only leak inward sucking air and refuse to leak fluid out,,, they are my all time favourites....NOT!

Lee D

Agree with John, could very well be an air lock in the master cylinder. Try repeating the exercise with the vehicle parked facing up the steepest hill you can find.

Nick

get an old windscreen washer pump and two bits of pipe connect the outlet from the pump to the bleed nipple and dangle the other pipe into the bottle of brake fluid open bleed nipple and switch on pump this will force the air back up into the master cylinder and out into the reservoir empty the reservoir and repeat on the other brakes or you could use an oil can and pump it up manually but you end up with a thumb like Schwarzenegger's leg

Andy

There are many ways suggested for bleeding Series brakes, but to add my 2p's worth here's a method that always works and will leave you with brakes that put you through the windscreen............ contrary to popular belief Series brakes should be very good.

Put the vehicle on 4 axle stands. Take off the wheels and drums. Wire, or clamp, the brake shoes "in" (not to far!) Now bleed the brakes as per manual, taking care not to press to hard and snap the wires or clamps, prefereably using and Esi-Bleed or similar. Put the drums back on and adjust the brakes. Put the wheels back on and check the brake adjustment.

This works because, with the wheel cylinders in the "in" position, very little air gets trapped in the ends of the cylinders.

It might seem a bit of a faff, but its quicker than doing the job over and over again.

Richard

Both mine have *awesome* brakes with standard 10" drums. The biggest secret I found was getting decent linings - much of the lining material they use nowdays is useless.

You arent supposed to "pump the pedal a few times to build up pressure" that aerates the fluid ...... just open the bleed nipple and depress the pedal , tighten and slowly return to rest and repeat....... Or use a Gunsons easibleeder........ with no pumping . steve the grease

Brilliant idea. My bike's hydraulic clutch was a complete bitch to properly and ended up going the oil can route - never thought of doing it that way - after all you can never have too many power tools!

I'll second that - it took me years to break my boss of that habit, and even he's a believer now.

Incidentally, does an RL driver pilot some sort of a Bedford? :-)

Twas Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:14:41 +0000 when PDannyD put finger to keyboard producing:

I had a similar problem on my 110. it turned out that one of the springs on the shoes was fitted on the front (as you look at them) instead of the back, that's the only thing that was wrong but that alone allowed excessive movement of the shoes dispite the cams having been adjusted properly.

My advice: replace all the shoes AND springs AND be sure, double check and triple check that the springs are correctly fitted. it solved my problem after 9 months of head scratching.

I also bought an eezibleed and love it to bits, makes proper bleeding a doddle as well as renewing the hydrolic fluid, befinatly worth having one in my opinion (and I'm a cheapskate).

Regards. Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.)

Its a possibility.................see RSOLES ( R series Owners Lovers and Enthusiasts Society )on Yahoo groups steve the grease