FS td5 engine line

Oh I quite *like* it. That does not mean that it is a competitive or safe machine by today's standards.

Huw

Does that include a torque matched clutch, gearboxes and axles? I want it as original equipment from the factory. Ideally it would be a new vehicle from the ground up but at present they are only talking of changing components. With a bit of luck they will also outsource the gearboxes while they are at it. Not that I can complain about mine, just that we need a future proof vehicle, or at least one that will satisfy the demands of the next couple or three years.

Huw

In message , Nige writes

It is as a "car" that it fails dismally.

As an offroad vehicle it is excellent. But people ask more than that these days.

This has been bought home recently as I have sold all my stock Discoveries and know we are having to use Defender CSW's as family transport. The 110 is practical as it gets but not a patch on some of the other 4x4's available.

Landrover can broaden the appeal without loosing the ability it really is not that hard.

I thought your post was part of the TD5-bashing, sorry ;)

Raoul

I don´t see the demand. Mine has to go fast on the motorway on a daily basis, some times goes offroad, sometimes has to pull heavy trailers and once a year has to tackle the sahara. It has now done 50.000km on this basis and there is not slightest sign of wear and of course, nothing broke.

Raoul

So yours is a chipped TD5? A friend has one and it is adequately powerful if a bit sudden in its delivery at over 2000rpm. I've nothing against chipping and I run a TD6 myself which is chipped and it is indeed less thirsty than standard.

Huw

Just chipping is bullshit. I really tried and tested what I wanted and now have a big intercooler, a suitable chip, no cat and K&N filter. So it now goes like stink and has lots of low down torque, more than any TDI will ever reach at maximum ;-)

Throttle-response is also near perfect, you can measure this while driving in soft sand in the Sahara where you need good throttle-response and fat low-down-torque.

Raoul

"Raoul Donschachner" wrote>

You've only done 50,000kms so far. Keep us up to date with vehicle repairs up to 200,000 kms. I would be surprised if the engine was still viable. A friend [not the same one] has had his catastrophically fail at 30,000 miles and the main dealer has been unable to start the new replacement, causing the vehicle to be shipped back to Solihull for specialist attention at the factory.

Huw

Me not. The life of an engine is more dependable from the way you treat it than from the horsepower it has to deliver. I had a lot of vehicles with tuned engines and as long as it was professional tuning I never had any worries.

Raoul

Chris Hi,

I would be grateful if you could post a link to the advertisement posted for the sale of the TD5 production line (no I do not intend on buying it, I am just curious)

Thanks in advance Pantelis

LR have spent the last 10 years establishing the Range Rover as the icon of the brand. That job is just about complete and I cannot see any reason why Land Rover as a company 'needs' the Defender any more. It doesn't fit with anything else they sell, either in design, componentry, image etc.

LR *do* need Defender. Old Series motors and battered Defenders sell far more Range Rovers than LR's naff adverts ever do. Customers are buying into the image of ruggedness and duarbility these old vehicles represent - take Defender away and what have you got? Expensive, unreliable vehicles that are made better by every other manufacturer (since Discovery II anyway) that are firmly in the "image" market.

The other market, which round here LR are doing well in, is the user who needs a utility vehicle for work. Most farmers, most utilities and such like have tried non-Defender solutions round here and have now gone back to Defender. While there are not many except me and a few other loonies who would drive a Defender as a first-choice vehicle, there are plenty who buy other LR vehicles as a spin-off from their work vehicle. Toyota understand this, as do Nissan of late. Jeep don't, and look where they are in market perception.....

Richard

Nostalgia, important as it may seem to people here, plays very little in the broader purchasing decisions of individuals, fleet managers and large corporate / governmental procurement offices.

Tim is nearly right, LR/Ford don't really 'need' the Defender, however it's fairly essential in other ways for them to keep it in the line for at least another 10 years. If only the build quality weren't so bad, they'd have enviable sales too.

For individuals, image is everything - just look at car adverts (any maker) to see how important it is. However much they may convince themselves to the contrary, the vast majority buy accoding to image, which may be "look at me, aren't I clever being this economical" to "I'm an ace driver so I can handle all this power", via "I try buy ones built in Britain" and "Isn't the CD player good". Very few are bought after listing all the requiremnts and then matching that to all the possible available vehicles. Having said that, many purchasers will adapt their list to match the vehicle that they actually want ("well, look, one a year we take Granny to Aunti Flow, so we realy do need 7 seats, Dear). Corporate buyers, though being monitored by the bean counters, are not a lot different at heart - one large local haulier would only have Seddon-Atckinson in his fleet, whereas another would only have Volvo, though for economy (for their milk tanker fleets) they would have both been significatly better off with ERF at the time. One of then, at least, must have been wrong!

Since the primary non-road use for Defenders on farms is as temporary fencing and the like, the asthetic build quality does not really matter

- the ability to halt an irate bull and be drivable is far more important.

Richard

How much marketing and advertising have you seen for the Defender in the last five years? And how much for Freelander and Range Rover?

I don't think LR marketing see it quite how you do. Otherwise LR would put far more effort into customer care and less into brochures, adverts and other campaigns. How many Range Rover customers (remember we are talking about people who have either £60K in spare cash or £1k / month for lease) even know the LR made the Series 1?

Today's Land Rover customer buys a car, runs it for 30-60K miles and three years and then buys another. They don't give a toss how long it lasts beyond that, and apart from 'image' the majority don't give a hoot how well it performs off road. They only care about whether their mates THINK it is good off-road. Hence the adverts and the great care to make sure Clarkson drives one up a mountain without getting muddy on prime-time TV.

In message , beamendsltd writes

That's all very well but when you pay a kings ransom for it you expect more.

Defender - none, but, in the UK, Defenders sell themeselves - my point entirely. Freelander had quite a burst at the last model launch, and stillpops up now and again. Discovery III - plenty of pretentious twaddle that turns me off rather than on. Range Rover - none, except a articles in mags. LR would seen to have a very limited advertising budget, so....

... they use brouchures which have a much longer "shelf life".

Quite a lot, round here anyway. Like I say, they are buying into the image created by Range Rovers in the 70's - practical luxury etc, derrived from the stength and durability of the original that opened the world up (Well, that's the story). The two dealerships I visit still use subtlely placed pictures of Series and Defenders with their ovaralls on to maintain the link.

My point exactly, the image created by Defender and Series is being nurtured - take that away and it does indeed become just another 4x4. When that happens, the ego's you've outlined above, will not put up with all the "Land Roverisms" that they do now while it is percived as being the best. As Mr. Lincon said "You can fool all the poeple some of the time........"

Richard

Funnily enough, and it does surprise me, farmers don't complain about the cost very much, if at all. Having said that, compared to a tractor they are two a penny, plus they get full capital allowances and all that stuff to set against tax (even the tax man is not going to try and claim they are a car - something any future Defender plans should take into account).

Richard

Tim Hobbs wrote: >

Strangely, about four weeks ago there were full page Defender adverts in the national papers (or at least one of them). It rather surprised me.