Last Land-Rover for mere mortals?

But equally you cannot play the heritage card, as LR do big time, without a product to back it up. The farce over the 50th Aniversary showed that (Freelanders on a guided metal track at the ARC Nationals).

Just wait until some form of ban/tax regime on Chelsea Tractors and/or big cars comes in - it will. The loop hole will be commerial use.

Richard

That's the kind of engine that often already has a standard query bus installed, have a google search for your car and "ecu diagnostics" and see what comes up.

Try disconnecting the battery, it depends on the ECU but on mine, it memorises fuel mixture data from when the engine is in closed-loop mode, and when in open-loop mode it re-uses them. Pulling the ECU power resets these to default values and it starts the learning process again. It normally runs with less power initially though. I should point out however that whether this will help or make the problem worse depends on the ECU and how it's set up ;-)

If you can, get workshop manuals for the car, and make sure that the manuals include the engine management data, some cars have a separate manual for that. Mine has oodles of data including expected values for sensors, trouble-shooting flowcharts etc.

Agreed, as I stated. But Defender (whilst it lasts) should be something more simple. The market is there for a simpler vehicle for the African and Indian markets.

Yes, and Range Rover and Discovery are the vehicles which have made the profit over the years (I don't know what Freelander does for the company). But I usually buy genuine spares for my 110, and hence maintain some kind of revenue for the company. And I bet more people think "Land Rover" when they see a Defender shape than they do with the others - that's called product awareness. Once they get into the dealership, then they probably go for Disco, but they will associate that vehicle with the legend (and heritage) that is Defender.

Er, dunno what Euro V is!

Maybe I'm just too untrusting of computers in vehicles...

Stuart

Since the Initials TDI stand for Turbo Diesel Injection, the moniker TDI applies to all current diesel engines. Therefore the Iveco engine is a 2.8 TDI. Landrover do not have a monopoly on the initials TDI.

Mmm. Much nicer than the merc engine'd minibuses we have though.

Alex

|| On Tue, 23 May 2006 07:44:50 +0100, Austin Shackles || wrote: || ||| On or around Tue, 23 May 2006 00:06:46 +0100, Alex ||| enlightened us thusly: ||| |||| |||| Um, Santana are still producing what is basically a Series III |||| with a |||| 2.8 TDi in it. ||| ||| yeah, but it's not a 2.8 TDi, it's an IVECO. There is a lot in ||| south america producing the oversized TDi, but that's a different ||| animal. ||| || || Since the Initials TDI stand for Turbo Diesel Injection,

Turbocharged Direct Injection.

|| the moniker || TDI applies to all current diesel engines.

No - only those with direct injection, I reckon, which is not all current engines by any means.

|| Therefore the Iveco engine || is a 2.8 TDI.

Only by your definition.

|| Landrover do not have a monopoly on the initials TDI.

No, but the letters Tdi (in this NG at least) will be taken to apply to engines made by Land Rover in the 200/300 Tdi series.

I must say Ford get nothing from me, however I got fed up with Ford when they started hiking the prices on there back catalogue of spares, an obvios ploy to get one to dump the old motor and buy a new one.

Anyway Ford can afford to build defenders easily enough without the rest of the catalogue, is not as if any part of Landrover is there mainstay anyway

Well, it's only the "luxury car" marques (Jaguar, Range Rover, Volvo, Aston) that make any money for Ford. "Ford" cars just about break even. It was the same for (old) Rover, British Leyland, Rover Group - only the luxury model(s) (in those case, Jaguars and Land-Rover) which made the money. Look at MG-Rover after the BMW sell-off: zero profit, collapse. Without Land Rover and the like, Ford wouldn't survive.

Stuart

Or Turbo Diesel Intercooler have a look at this beasty

One small problem with your argument. Both Land Rover and Jaguar make quite substantial losses for Ford.

Huw

Jaguar I don't know, but Land Rover making a loss? Land Rover have

*never* made a loss in over 50 years - it was indeed the only part of the above mentioned companies making a *profit*. There was a graphic on the BBC news website showing the income for MG Rover at the time of the collapse and the previous few years. Before the split, and after was a change of about 70% downwards. If Ford are claiming that Land Rover are making a loss (and I mean the whole division, not just the Defender line), then either they are using creative accounting, or the Freelander is more of a dog than I had thought.

Stuart

Yes, Ford are in trouble - losses of £600m+ this year. IIRC in the US their main market is now the SUV's powered by huge V8 engines - and when the price of fuel have gone from 80c / gallon to $3 in such a short time, that market is starting to die off in the US. PAG - which comprises LR, Jaguar, Volvo and Aston made a decent profit - although Jaguar in themselves are making huge losses. tho I think even LR are struggling in the US.

Matt.

Last I heard on the new was that the reverse is/was true - Ford's Premier Group was losing money while the bread-and-butter stuff was doing well. Mind you, the figures can be "manipulated" to suit, i.e. closing Browns Lane.

Richard

Maybe not quite "creative" accounting, but Ford have paid for all of Land Rover in one lump, and have to pay off all that investment rather rapidly. Set that against the division's operating profit, and you will almost certainly have a loss.

Land Rover, when they were designing those models and building production lines, did not do it all at once. They already had the land, maybe even the buildings.

It's like a buying a house. The previous owner's mortgage has nothing to do with what the new owner has to pay.

On or around Tue, 23 May 2006 20:00:56 +0100, Alex enlightened us thusly:

Actually, I thought it was turbo direct injection, as distinct from indirect injection.

however, in LR discussion, TDi normally means LR's version, which in a few cases is also EDC, although by a similar system to my tranny, with an injection pump with electronic control, rather than common-rail or unit injector.

I assume the powerstroke(?) engine that's being made in south america is still using the bosch injection pump, suitably reset for the bigger capacity.

quite fancy one of them in a disco, mind. The TDi disco is not bad, but there's a limit to how much go you can get from it without making it smoke too much.

On or around Tue, 23 May 2006 20:40:01 +0100, "Richard Brookman" enlightened us thusly:

although in fact I think it is a DI.

This years figures show that Ford made a loss, whist PAG made a profit - last year PAG made a loss, I'm not sure about Ford.

Matt

On or around Wed, 24 May 2006 08:26:51 +0100, Matthew Maddock enlightened us thusly:

have to say, "about time too". ultra-cheap gas is all very fine but it promotes a recklessly wasteful society. In a country where they had for a long time a blanket 55mph limit, they have cars with 7 litre engines. The smallest engine per-size-of-car I had was an HC viva with a whole 1256cc, which was quite capable of cruising at 55 mph.

Thanks for this and the later info, the search you mentioned yields a guy with apparently the same problem diagnosed and fixed with a new ecu. As the car is a freebie it's not worth spending 800 quid on. It does seem strange scrapping a big car with everything else working on it, I will live with the problem till MOT next month but it would have been useful to force it to stay open loop.

AJH

You can sometimes force an engine to stay in open loop mode by unplugging the lambda sensor in the exhaust stream, as then it doesn't know if it's burning too rich or lean as it has no feedback, hence "open loop" mode. If you really want it to stay in that mode then you could try that but if there's a catalytic converter it will probably wreck it, not to mention run rich or lean. I thought however that your problem was originally that open loop mode wasn't working very well.