More bad news for older cars

In message , Larry writes

Not really. because an LPG conversion doesn't reduce CO2 emissions. What it does do is give a significantly cleaner emission because of virtually zero CO emission and no nitrous oxide, no sulphur content and reduced unburnt hydrocarbons.

I had the impression it was particulates and unburnt hydrocarbons they were concerned with not CO2

There was a bit in Practical Classics that stated that following lobbying, cars over 30 years old are exempt.

So, with an old Landy you'll be ok!

Cheers

Peter

Seems to be Diesel vehicles they are gunning for this time, the particulates are a nasty pollutant that have been mostly overlooked. Some believe they have a significant role in the rise in Asthma cases. Petrol engines also produce particulates but not so much and of a different, less harmful, size. But, why does every Government refuse to do anything about Aeroplanes, especially short haul flights which cause so much pollution and high up in the atmosphere where it really hurts. Rail and even car travel is significantly better, pollution wise.

I wondered why the pollution hurts higher up, and saw an article a little while ago that mentioned it's because the air up where the planes fly tends to stay there, so the pollution from planes stays up in a narrow band trapped by the layering effect of the atmosphere, so it's confined to a much smaller body of air. I think what we need is a whopping great big ceiling fan!

Someone also said a while ago that planes produce less pollutant per passenger mile than cars, which is true to an extent, but when you hop on a plane you can often do more miles in one short trip than you do in a car for a whole year, so there's a concern about the miles travelled and the resulting damage rather than planes being dirtier. Plus of course the pollution stays up in the narrow stratosphere.

It appears to be the same as Red Ken's LEZ in London, however being a Ken thing, the fines for straying into the zone even for a few seconds for any reason whatsoever are over £100 per day with no meaningful appeal process. Ken's charge is only aimed at diesels as it's those that produce the harmful particulate pollution. I read many years ago that children living near bus stations are growing up with up to 30 times the rate of lung cancer expected in non-smokers so if that's true perhaps there is a problem that needs tackling.

The trouble is 85% of statistics are used to make a point despite having be discredited by rational means . Take for example genetically modified organisms the reception they recieve is close to the witch burning sessions. I will make a statement that is impossible to disprove pollution is a vehicle seized upon by politicians in order to impose taxes with the least opposition. They have no real interest in clean air just the money in your pocket remember the London tax is a congestion charge in which case my ares smells of roses. By all means let politicians vote for measures but lets have the names of the buggers that do so we can show real representation of the people is about Derek

make Your politician work- sack the bugger

Cynicism aside, the LEZ and the congestion charge are two separate things, although they look the same. I'm just checking that you are aware that there's something *new* being introduced! The congestion charge is on every vehicle (more or less), while the LEZ is only on diesels that have worse than a set level of particulate emissions.

300TDi landies will be hit with the new charge in 2009 if they want to go into the LEZ. Basically it boils down to a simple rule; don't go anywhere near London unless someone's paying you shitloads to do so! I think anyone sensible already follows that rule ;-) I just hope other cities aren't too keen to follow suit, they haven't done so with congestion charges yet.

Except that if all those people that were going to travel by air now have to use the roads (because our so-called public transport system is useless) then we have even bigger traffic jams and increased pollution. You don't get traffic jams at 30,000 feet :-)

Road and rail pollution is only better if traffic/trains can move freely. Once vehicles become part of a jam then the balance moves the other way.

Have you been to the LEZ web site and used their calculator thingy? I plugged the details of my 300Tdi Discovery in and got a response that it is outside of the charge because it is a car. The LEZ charges are basically for commercial vehicles (plus some others).

To quote from the LEZ web site -

:

The Low Emission Zone (LEZ) will affect older, diesel-engined lorries, buses, coaches, minibuses and large vans (exceeding 1.205 tonnes unladen weight).

It will also affect other specialist vehicles that are derived from lorries and vans, including motorised horse boxes, breakdown and recovery vehicles, refuse collection vehicles, gritters, sweepers, concrete mixers, tippers, removals lorries, fire appliances, motor caravans, ambulances and large hearses (over 2.5 tonnes).

No mention of Land Rovers although some 109 and 110 vehicles may get caught in the "large vans" category.

I put mine in, 300tdi 9 seat station wagon, (car tax paid when new) and was told I have to pay after 2010. Seems they make it up as they go along.

That's because it falls into the definition of a mini-bus. You need to get a certificate from VOSA (I think) to say it's not a mini-bus.

Not sure about the calculator, but I went to the LEZ website where it asks for your registration number and then tells you how deep the world of pain will be depending on the information they hold in the DVLA database (whoever has it these days, just about everyone I think). My 110 was a hard-top registered as a commercial originally, not sure if that makes a difference.

Only in the airports. The last two times I've flown to Aberdeen I could have done the journey far faster by car, due to delays in taking off. And the reason I didn't drive was to get there quicker for a short visit. The drive takes most of the day.

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Larry, managed to produce the following words of wisdom

I've just had a dig through the regulations as I was planning on taking my Range Rover to Berlin in May. Turns out I can't.

Rules are as follows - if you've got a petrol without a 3 way catalyst then you're not going to Berlin, LPG or no LPG. Verboten!

If you've got a catalyst, then you're fine, no worries, pay ?10 or thereabout and welkommen!

Diseasel drivers need to be able to meet Euro 2 (or Euro 1 with a particulate filter).

Not sure I trust the article at all, I can't reconcile:

"The stickers - green, red or yellow - are mandatory not only for locals but also for foreign drivers, including tourists."

With:

"Officials say the majority of cars in the affected cities qualify for the stickers."

If the stickers an mandatory why is there a need to "qualify"? Is the sticker for driver or the car?

And what purpose do they serve? The three colours, is this so the greenies can target high polluters with their keys? There is a fine if you don't have one but no mention of any charge for entering the zone if you do. The small fee for the sticker is hardly a significant revenue raiser.

Once you've got the sticker there's no problem. Without the sticker you can't enter the zone without paying a fine.

Unlike Kens insanity in London, this isn't meant to be a revenue raiser, it's just a way of keeping the most polluting (according to them) cars out of certain areas.

Most people I know who actually live in or near the CC area don't consider it 'Ken's insanity' - after all they voted him in twice with this being perhaps the most debated point between candidates.

The insanity was the traffic levels in the central area. The CC much reduced those - although of course they have crept up since.

Despite living close to the CC area, I have only paid it once. I simply have no reason to want to drive into this area during the times it operates - I use the excellent PT system instead, or skirt round it if travelling north by car.

I do, however, work in the area fairly regularly, and what was very noticeable was how much earlier we got to our destination when it was started, travelling in our van with equipment from the suburbs. And for business, time means money. Far more than the small CC charge.