More bad news for older cars

Well, you seem to have read his thoughts and decided he was talking about the congestion charge, despite there being the LEZ and the discussion being about an LEZ-type affair overseas and he did talk about it being a pollution charge, which the LEZ is and the congenstion charge isn't. So when it comes to mind reading, I think my effort is much better than yours.

Not a London resident.

And the labour party have been voted in multiple times, due to the competition being crap and the "better the devil you know" factor. Just because he's voted in doesn't mean all his ideas are good. As for most people being in favour, I've never seen evidence of that.

I do abide by the laws but don't have to think the punishment is proportional. I almost violated the congestion charge rules recently because as it was only the second time I was going into the zone since it was introduced I phoned the helpline for advice and was told that I wouldn't have to pay as I was going into the zone on a Sunday and leaving on Thursday. The operator was wrong, I have to pay if leaving the zone too. I only found this out because when I was leaving I was skirting the zone around Victoria station, avoiding the "C" zone signs but ended up on a main route outside the zone that briefly took me into it so phoned them up and told them what had happened. I mentioned that I almost didn't have to pay because I came in on the Sunday and was told that I wouldn't have to pay coming out, this other operator said that was wrong and they'd try and track down who sold me the bum information. If I hadn't accidentally strayed into the zone I'd have been hit by a penalty with no option to appeal despite being mis-informed by Ken's own staff.

You just don't get it do you? I can't try and vote ken out if I don't live in London. Also the LEZ and congestion charge aren't my main issue, it's the over-heavy penalty and the laughable appeals process.

And where exactly do I advocate the dodging of all responsibilities?

Sure but the reason for the LEZ and the EU regulations that sparked it was because of the heightened risk of lung cancer amongst the population in areas of high pollution, that needs addressing if the risks are real so it's right that all the polluters are hit by it, if they just hit the public as they usually do then it'd be a stinker. After the initial pain it won't be an issue.

Sigh. Here is the quote since you seem to have trouble remembering it:-

'Once you've got the sticker there's no problem. Without the sticker you can't enter the zone without paying a fine.

Unlike Kens insanity in London, this isn't meant to be a revenue raiser, it's just a way of keeping the most polluting (according to them) cars out of certain areas'.

Now just which parts of 'once', 'unlike' and 'isn't meant to be' do you have trouble understanding?

But as you said you don't live in London. Nor does the fact you think it a bad idea make it one - anymore than my thinking the opposite.

Not if you left before or after it was in operation.

There are no 'main routes' that take you briefly into it then out again.

So you say. But since you appear to have problems understanding written English perhaps the sane applies with verbal communication.

Quite simple, then. Don't risk the penalty. Stay well away from London with your vehicle.

I'd say that supports me more than you, but given your inability to read before flapping your gums I think we won't bother arguing that point any more. I see from the rest of your post that similar applies, but I'll soldier on..

So?

You might want to phone up the operator who told me I was fine..

The point, which you dodge as usual, is that it's too easy to violate even if you phone them to ask for advice, and the appeals process is laughable. The new LEZ (which I'll remind you is what this thread is about until you hijacked it with your hobby horse) is even worse, hundreds of pounds a day.

I can't remember where I came out from but ended up on the route that eventually takes me past Harrods IIRC, and got stuck in a lane that took me into the zone. When you're very close to the zone, it can be hard keeping out of it when you're new to the area and the dreadful traffic which the zone "solved" gets in the way.

Har har, that's funny coming from you!

I do, that's why I've only been into the zone twice since it was introduced. As usual you have to have things pointed out to you in great detail, being a clot.

LEZ? Landrover Exclusion Zone?

I've just done a search for my 1997 Discovery at

and it came up"Vehicle not found", so not sure if it's compliant or not....

Hmm, sounds like your registration plate isn't valid, did you nick your truck? ;-)

Also, the manufacture is "Land Rover", not "Tata"..

Mind you, my pinz manufacturer is down as "Pinzgauer" and not "Steyr-Daimler-Puch".

There's a lot of odd makes in there, Yanmar? I thought they made generators? And I wouldn't mind going into an MOT place with a car made by "White Knuckle".. Owning an "Umm" might make you seem indecisive though. I'll bet Chris Eubanks would like to own a "Thumpstar". And what kind of car is a "She Lung"? Takes your breath away.

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Dave Plowman (News), managed to produce the following words of wisdom

Just to settle this, I was talking solely about the emissions zone that Ken is planning on. Not mention of the Congestion Charge - although I think that's a bad idea as well.

I've just had enough of crackpot MPs managing to get any anti-vehicle legislation they like through parliament, but motorists having no way to get their voices heard other than the ABD and Safe-Speed. Safe Speed come across as a one man vigilante outfit, and the ABD never seem to do anything other than release half-arsed press statements.

Londons motorists seem to be utterly brainwashed when it comes to any charges that their beloved council can come up with. I don't know anywhere else on the planet who'd vote for a charge of £8 a day just to drive a car and then think that a couple of hundred quid a day for driving an older vehicle seems reasonable..

It's all just more motoring TAX, people. Don't just lie down and take it, you pay enough tax to drive as it is. Don't encourage them!!

Ok. So what did you actually mean by 'unlike Ken's insanity in London, this (the LEZ presumably) isn't meant to be a revenue raiser...?

After all he his best known - by several miles - for the CC.

Oh dear. You as well don't seem to have got the idea of the CC. It is to reduce the number of vehicles being used in the CC area. And what other way could that be achieved other than by charging? And as I said before I don't pay the CC - I use PT to go to that part of London if I need to.

There's no mention of cars on the site, so they may think yours is a car. ;-)

I did a search for mine, & it said "Not subject to LEZ - Based on the information you have entered and information held by Transport for London (TfL), the Low Emission Zone (LEZ) does not apply to this vehicle. As long as the vehicle remains not subject to the LEZ the daily charge does not have to be paid for this vehicle when it is used in the Zone.

Not a diesel vehicle"

The compliance requirement only applies to *diesel* vehicles over 3.5 tonnes at the moment, & all Historic Vehicles (pre 1973) are exempt. Mine's a 1968 petrol long wheel base. After October 2010, Euro 3 is needed if it's a commercial vehicle over 1.205 tonnes gross weight. Again, this only applies to diesels.

In 2010 the net tightens to include other diesels, including the

300TDi Defender. More modern cars, including my 1997 audi 1.9TDi are fine for the forseeable.

He meant the LEZ, which he's already told you, as did I. Are you so adamant that you're right that you're even going to argue with Pete about what Pete meant?

And the LEZ. It's only you who can only think about the congenstion charge. Do you lick the signs on your way to work?

Which brings us back to the apparent fact that it's just a tax on doing business in London. It's already cost the coach company I work for money to get their older vehicles tested, & the test gets stricter as time goes on. A number of companies with older coaches round here are just refusing to take bookings to go to London after the charge comes in, as it's not cost effective to upgrade the vehicles for a couple of jobs a year. Just wait until Birmingham & the like get hold of the idea....

Cars and spark ignition engined vehicles are not going to be affected at all.

In a dim and distant universe , Ian Rawlings enlightened us thusly:

Well, I've not been stopped yet.... :-)

Bagh! I put in "Land Rover" :-P

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Dave Plowman (News), managed to produce the following words of wisdom

I've got the CC idea 100%, I know how it's meant to work, and how to use public transport.

I also understand fully how the emissions zones work, in the UK they'll tax you off the road, in Europe they'll actually improve their public transport and make it appealing to use - instead of forcing you to use it and not giving you another choice.

I use public transport when I'm in the Czech Republic, it's brilliant, quick, cheap, clean, warm, reliable and gets me where I need to go in a reasonable timescale. I have cars out there I can use but I only use them when public transport can't do the job, or when I'm carrying something that is too bulky or heavy to carry on public transport.

The UK doesn't have the infrastructure to do the same with the public transport system, we have probably the most heavily taxed motorists in the world, but virtually none of the money goes where it's supposed to go. The motorway network is a badly maintained disaster, public transport in most places is an utter joke, the trains are vastly overpriced and unreliable and more often than not the car is the only way to get from A-B within a sensible timescale. London is possibly the only exception as it's had a pretty good public transport system for the last 100 years or so. Bugger all to do with Mad Ken and his ideas.

Where I live in Liverpool public transport is simply not an option for most journeys. If I'm going to the studio it takes 15 mins by car, 25 mins by pushbike or over an hour by bus. If I'm going to work it takes 15-20 mins by car or a staggering 1.5 hours by public transport - the pushbike option is ruled out by the need to cross the River. All local rail services to me were removed in the early 60s, they're lovely "scenic walkways" now.

But that's a different argument altogether.

In the post I replied to we were specifically discussing short-haul flights within the UK/Europe

Interesting, what does the DVLA web site say about your car?

Go to their home page and then click on "vehicle enquiry"