But voting for someone who I don't want to is a waste too - indeed it could be worse than a waste - in the absence of the Monsters, whoever I voted for will take my vote as actually supporting them, and in the last general election that would have been the BNP - should I *really* vote for them?
Agreed - and in the long term they may even be seem as an alternative to opinion polls, which are a dangerously innacurte way of measuring public opinion.
Richard
Which is exactly the function of the Official Monster Raving Loony Party. Why not stand yourself? £500 to have a good laugh at the expense of the unofficial loonies, and give fat lazy bastards like yourself someone to vote for. I would stand myself, except (a) I live outside the country (no proxy standing, only voting), and (b) there is already a candidate in my old constituency (Erewash)
Stuart
Yes, but not enough to make the difference between going to war and not going to war, they certainly knew that they were going to war without the support of the citizens, if you and close to a million others hadn't marched, then they'd have been much more bullish about it. Doesn't make much difference to the soldiers and Iraqis but the point was certainly made.
And just because you didn't get the result that you wanted, doesn't mean that you should then just totally give up and let them do what they want unopposed. That's just running away.
That's not what I said, and in fact I'm always up bright and early to cast my vote, be it in general elections or the local spin-offs. What's disappointing (to say the very least!) is that the winners in the last couple of general elections have crowed about having an overwhelming majority of support to pursue their own ambitions when quite clearly the real majority of those who voted (2/3 at the last election) actually voted for someone else and a different policy regime altogether. Adding your name to a few uncoordinated and unofficial lists of names which will most likely get lost in the background noise of everyone elses little petition is not going to carry any weight whatsoever if the result of the primary petition/opinion poll that the country has (the general election and its results) is manipulated and spun to be something that it isn't.
If it was just one protest or collection of voices that had been ignored I'd agree with you. Unfortunately it wasn't and I have no reason to suspect that it will be otherwise in the future. If it gives you a nice rosy glow to believe that a faceless web-based list of names will carry more weight than turning up in the hundreds of thousands in person and getting the mass of opposition shown on prime-time television news both here and in other parts of the world, then sign up. Or maybe another march is better - organize one and I'll be there to help you carry the banner. If nothing else it'll get me out of the house for a while and I can do some shopping afterwards.
Unfortunately, there will always be those with short memories who are easily conned.
Indeed, but that's our electoral system unfortunately, I used to vote lib dem but can't any more and there's no-one else to vote for who represents me in any meaningful manner. The voting system is like speed cameras, it's a blunt instrument that is unreasonable but is the only workable system that's acceptable. Having referrendums on single issues is wide open to single-issue groups who can rally the support of a minority to force a change on the rest of the country, as those who don't mind the status quo tend to ignore votes to change it.
The hope with the No. 10 petitions is that they are an attempt to actually do something good, and if so need to be encouraged. It's not unheard of for the government to do something that helps us kick them, the Freedom of Information act is a good example, although it seems it's becoming a victim of its own success as they're now trying to knobble it! Another illustration of a good piece of legislation is the Human Rights Act, despite what the s**te press say about it, if you read the thing then it's clear that it's not there to allow prisoners to be given more rights than the law-abiding. It's a good piece of legislation that tends to get blamed for things that it really plays no part in, for example the ranting about not releasing pictures of escaped prisoners in case it contravened their right to privacy -- that was nonsense, the HRA wasn't involved there, just police trying to use it to justify a c*ck-up, which they later admitted. It's an oft-repeated pattern.
So if they appear to be trying to do something right, then great, encourage it and see if it works, rather than just condemning it out-of-hand before it's even had a chance to prove itself.
The key basically is to try and make your voice heard whenever possible, democracy is not limited to just voting once every few years, you can rally your MP, go on demos, sign petitions, donate to charities, anything to try and make your voice heard.
Again, no point in not taking part just because one battle was lost. Bear in mind that they committed themselves so heavily to that war that almost nothing would change their minds so it's not right to dismiss all methods of altering the course of the country based on one failure where the course was already so solidly set. Not all decisions are that fixed, and it has to be made plain to them just how unpopular an issue is in an attempt to change their minds, or to make it clear to the other parties that it's an issue that they can use to differentiate themselves from the incumbents so that we can actually have a vote that can change something.
Indeed, people sell their freedom for small conveniences all throughout history, it's a bad habit! "I've got nothing to hide" is the rallying cry of the muppet, they'll keep shouting it until they have no privacy at all.
Alas time does not allow - plus I seem to recall the deposit has been increased somewhat to prevent frivolous candidates :-(
Richard
er, who said anything about the war?
or getting real, it depends on one's point of view. I'll maybe give the next lot a go!
Richard
In article , Steve writes
He isn't (or wasn't a small number of weeks ago).
The reason behind one of the petitions that was (at the time, haven't checked recently) in the top ten was the subject of a Prime Ministers Question, and he said he was unaware of the problem (the result of incompetence at DEFRA). Obviously someone back at number 10 is taking a great deal of interest, and ensuring that relevant parties are briefed I don't think.
And in the grand scheme of things it probably won't make a deal of difference. Bliar will do what he wants to do, safe in the knowledge that he won't have to tidy up the mess he creates, and if you are being cynical, if he creates a big mess for Culpability Brown to sort out, then all the better.
Adrian
In message , Austin Shackles writes
No they can't do any harm, but on the other hand they are too easily dismissed as the vocal minority. If 2 million turn out to protest, that's about 60 million who didn't. No one can say how many of those supported which side.
If you feel strongly about something just keep plugging away at your local MP or local councillor as appropriate with reasoned arguments and facts, but don't expect to win your case at the first attempt.
And always vote - even if you spoil your ballot paper.
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