It has nothing to do with PC and everything to do with the blame/claim culture. If I was to allow anyone access for recreational driving I would expect them to have valid insurance and not to do anything that would invalidate that insurance and leave me exposed to any liability. It's just not worth the risk in these times of ambulance chasing lawyers.
PC?
Most of it relates to the Health and Safety at Work Act of 1974.
It's legislation passed by the last Heath government
It's just that most people outside manufacturing industry weren't aware of the act and its rules until various individuals were dragged into court for violations.
Essentially what it says is that the boss is responsible for everything that happens everywhere on their premises unless you have a bit of paper that has been signed off by everyone concerned, and everyone concerned has been trained to understand what they're signing...
In reality, if you've half a brain, stuff like risk assessments take about two minutes to write and everyone concerned is promptly made happy until there's a nasty accident, at which point the rules say 'someone must be guilty of something', but if you're the one writing the risk assessment you can make damn sure it isn't you...
The usual trick is to push all the shit downstream (this is usually called 'empowerment') so the poor sap who has the accident is responsible because they signed to say they'd been trained and were happy with the level of training...
You 'rent' the field for training purposes (for 2p), the people doing the renting sign to say they're responsible for safety, including public access issues, while operations are ongoing.
You have no problems, they do...
Yeah but I said *still* farmers... I'd have flogged the lot and buggered off long since.. Too much like hard work.
If that's possible, then that sounds perfectly reasonable to me and I'd happily cough up the 2p for a field near the house to take a niece/nephew for a trundle in a landy in low range. I'd probably immediately get hit by an asteroid though.
'Act of God'.
Not covered by the H&S Act.
Nuts, I'd best get a tin hat then.
In message , William Black writes
Health and safety AT WORK act.
IS recreational driving classified as "at work"?
If work is conducted in the vicinity it is someone's workplace, so yes!
It's perfectly possible to be wise without also being bone-idle ;)
If the activity takes place at someone's place of work, or someone is employed in the activity, and the definition of 'employed' can include someone who you're paying by giving them a drive, (or even a sandwich or a cup of tea), yes.
Under certain circumstances you don't even need that.
Anything that involves firearms or explosives is covered even if nobody is working.
Do the paperwork.
Sure, but the wiser wise man is wise *and* bone-idle, if he was less wise he'd have to work hard :-P
Besides, not having to work hard would allow the hypothetical wise man more time to do wise things.
So next time you see a lazy man, think how wise he is.
I'm not sure all the above hangs together really.
On or around Sat, 1 Mar 2008 19:16:58 +0000, Ian Rawlings enlightened us thusly:
It's worth a try. You missed the crucial part, though, The wise man is bone-idle, and does only that which suits him, and *gets someone else to pay him for this*.
On or around Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:43:47 -0000, "William Black" enlightened us thusly:
I wouldn't like to bet on it.
On or around Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:52:00 -0000, "William Black" enlightened us thusly:
Not covered by yer insurance either. Along with acts of war, terrorism, riot, civil disobedience, etc etc.
Lawyers can prove that everything they say is so and cleverer lawyers can prove that everything the other lawyers said ain't.
Just what is an act of terrorism though? Can they prove for sure that Al Quida are not plotting with the Martians to divert Asteroids?
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............................
The wise man can multi-task, it's possible to think and work hard at the same time. Most of my best ideas occur whilst I'm completing repetitve manual work that leaves the brain seeking something to keep it occupied ;)
I was reflecting on this whilst feeding sheep yesterday, I farm and am sitting on an appreciating asset whilst working flexi-time with a boss who understands all my needs. I use LRs in anger every day to make my working life easier and write them off as a business cost, because I get real off-roading every day I don't have to waste weekends paying for piss-poor pay to play sites or going green-laning so I have time for other hobbies. It's just possible that I may be wiser than you or I would ever believe ;)
The wife and I get to share child care and enjoy our daughters formative years instead of paying an extortionate rate for someone else to do it whilst we work our fingers to the bone. We may not have a lot of disposable income but life is good ;)
I almost tempted to bet that the exact opposite is true. I suspect that the exchange of money creates a contract and that you can't waive your responsibilities in that contract. If the perimeter isn't secure and the landowner has any knowledge that your "tenant" is negligent in this respect responsibility may well fall back on the landowner ;(
Snap. Funny how physical activity facilitates certain kinds of brain activity. If I go for a long walk, I get some great ideas and generally sort things out in my head, so that when I get back I am much more sorted than when I set out. If I am on a long drive and have a knotty problem (usually work-related) I sometimes talk out loud to myself, as if explaining the problem to a particularly dim bystander. By the time I have found the words to explain adequately what the problem is, I have usually found a solution. I get some funny looks, but it works for me.
Nope.
If that was the case the landowner would be responsible for health and safety issues if he, for example, let out a field for a music festival, which he isn't...
The law requires everyone to act in 'a reasonable manner'.
The landowner has to tell you if there's a right of way across the field you intend to drive around, but he's not responsible if someone climbs over a ditch and pushes through one of his hedges. He's done everything reasonable.
UK health and safety legislation is very carefully worded. It is designed to make everyone responsible for their own actions unless someone else has been negligent in some way. The problems invariably arise when someone decides when some busybody decides that 'negligence' consists of 'looking at every eventuality, no matter how absurd'.
There's an important concept here, the 'maximum credible accident'.
While the barmy buggers down at the local authority may say it's an aircraft crashing on your lawn, the courts tend not to think so unless you live at the end of the Heathrow runway...
Anyway, they can't actually force you to do stuff, all they can do is have you prosecuted if there's an accident.
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