Its time to do some major work on the stage 1 , I nearly went in to the back of a euro box ( some BMW thing ) this morning even with my foot hard down on the brake .
I have been told that the front axle is the same as a range rover on the stage 1 mine is a y reg , and I have a complete front axle of a d reg range rover with all the disk brakes , power steering box etc , so the big question is can I remove the brake system off the RR axle and fit it to the stage 1 with out to much modification ?
I properly adjusted and maintained Stage 1 set up will give no cause for any modification. The brakes are more than adequate for the vehicle.
I fitted a set to a SWB IIa with Jaguar 4.2 straight six and 3 speed autobox. Needless to say it didn't hang around. The brakes were able to launch the unoccupied seat bases into the foot well when I hadn't driven the vehicle for a while and forgot there power and sensitivity.
I've heard people say they have fitted range rover axles to series vehicles. This would at least require some precise welding to locate the spring pads. You then need to get over the issue of the steering linkages fouling the spring. I'm sure it is possible but have read many posts like yours and to date have to see a modified vehicle.
If any one is interested there are a pair of Stage 1 axles on Ebay at the moment. I'm more than happy with mine. The only advantage I see of Discs is that you don't need to get under every so often to fetle adjusters. Other than that stick to what you've got.
101's have the same brake set up, weigh in alot heavier than a 109 and still stop well (when proprerly maintained & adjusted).
I'd suspect worn shoes, contamination of the hubs from oil from the axle seals, broken adjusters (very common) or seized pistions.
I agree too - the brakes on my stage 1 were superb - I did have quite a good service when I bought it, they put new shoes and new wheel cylinders on, and the brakes were are sharp as anything.
I had the same brakes on my SIII 2.6 and they would stand it on it's nose when used in anger. If they're not giving you decent performance then you've got something wrong. Suspect a pair of seized wheel clyinders, one each side, resulting in you only getting 50% effort. A failing master cylinder is also a good culprit. Perished brake hoses produce funny effects, including lack of effort at the wheel. Also worth replacing/reconditioning/removing the failover valve on the chassis, as these get clogged up with crud and things which doesn't help.
Properly maintained and adjusted SIII Stage1/1ton brakes are more than adequate for a series, and quite adequate on a 3ton 101.
On or around Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:07:33 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd enlightened us thusly:
My 109 has nonservo drums, and they're fine. You have to apply a bit more boot-pressure, but there's plenty of stopping power. I guess if you did a lot of heavy towing, you might find they overheat. But then again, I'd not use a standard series for heavy towing these days anyway, nor even really a stage 1, I'd buy a 90 or 110 TDi.
and whatever you do, don't fit discs without a servo. Had a car like that once, and it was a bastard to stop. Required much pedal effort for any braking effort. fitted s remote servo in the end, which produced much better results.
Why do you say that? I've been looking at series 3a/stage1 V8's on Ebay to get back into landrovering, since they seem good value compared to 110CSW prices. But I tow all the time, short distances with 2 tons and the J**P is crap for towing....My 1984 110CSW V8 was a good tow vehicle.
On or around Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:15:30 +0000, Danny enlightened us thusly:
Standard series vehicles are very slow in modern traffic with 2T behind 'em, especially a diesel. The stage 1 wouldn't be too bad, but the V8 was seriously detuned for the stage 1. Having said that, a good series motor
*will* tow 2T, if you're not in a hurry. However, it can mean mastering the art of going down into low-range on the move if you do steep hills.
I agree entirely. The only advantages of discs are that they have less maintenance (self adjusting), and recover from water more rapidly, plus they are easier and cheaper to overhaul. Discs invariably have boosters, and if you find the pedal pressure is excessive on your drum brakes, add a booster before you compare with discs. But in satisfactory condition and properly adjusted, there is nothing wrong with series brakes. JD
Ah, memories of going to the Nationals in the late 70's down Devon way, towing my Series 1 on a four wheel trailer behind my Series 11. And coming back again with only front wheel drive, my back diff having thrust a bolt through the casing after a half shaft broke. A very slow drive home (in excess of 12 hours to get home to Kent) but without dramas. And yes, the brakes (with a servo) were well up to the job.
The only change I made was to the tow hitch weight, normally I ran a huge weight on the tow ball, but to ensure front wheel traction I shifted the towed vehicle weight back a bit, which made trailer wobble worse but helped going up hills in front wheel drive.
Hi Alex, can't agree with you entirely as having been involved with selling/installing and developement of disc brake conversion kits for the Series vehicles and 101, the changes in braking are significant.
It is NOT TRUE that you need brake boosters to fit disc brakes to a series vehicle. The Zeus kit, with which I have an involvement, can be easily and effectively fitted to diesel series vehicles, which don't have boosters due to lack of vacuum without fitment of an external vacuum pump as seen on the 300Tdi engines.
I have the disc brakes on my S3 swb, and when driving in traffic am very glad to have disc brakes fitted. If people want to see the disc brakes, and yes it is an commercial site, then feel free to visit:
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See items at the bottom of the list.
For those in the UK, you can contact Zeus directly 01392 438833
I took a friend off-roading in his series II some time back, involved a fair amount of driving in very watery mud, his brake shoes wore down to nothing in just four hours due to the abrasive grit in the water. He didn't even drive that much in the mud as he was on small wheels with all-terrain tyres, spent most of his time calling me for help ;-)
On the way home his brakes were shot, and he found that the shoes were completely screwed when he took the drums off. He reckons they were about half-worn when he'd started out that morning.
I've not seen that kind of mud much though, this was on a pay-n-play site on the outskirts of Reading, lots of flint in the soil too, cut my tyres to ribbons and I had a blowout at 80MPH along a cut-line some time later.
I've read alot about the Zeus conversions for 101's. What puts me off it having to grind calipers to make them fit. Several members of the club (not juust a couple!) identify this as an issue yet Zeus seem to bat it off as part of the installation process.
I've also seen photographs of Zeus disks with fractures in them whilst relatively new.
I think I'll stick to standard stuff for now, none of the above mentioned instills any confidence. It's not even as if they are a cheap option.
I'd recommend standard Landrover parts any day of the week.
That's cheap shoe's for you! They've never lasted as well without the asbestos though. Being serious, if you go off road in muddy/gritty conitions with drum brakes they really should be cleaned internally afterwards - well, that's the theory........
On or around Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:24:26 +1000, "Karen Gallagher" enlightened us thusly:
It's been my experience that excessive nose-weight makes 'em more likely to wiggle.
The other thing about it is that worn rear dampers seem to make a difference
- the disco here was an absolute bugger for it with the big trailer (where's Badger got to? - he's got it now) which had a high (NATO-height) hitch - this is to do with the dynamics of disco suspension and the amount of body movement when the latter is worn, I reckon. My disco had the suspension stiffened and slightly lifted and was better behaved, the 110 likewise.
On or around Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:12:08 +1100, Phillip Simpson enlightened us thusly:
'twas my comment. Based on personal experience of a car (Ford Cortina Mk2) which had front discs and no servo. Obviously, it had brakes, but they needed a lot of pressure at the pedal (and no, they weren't siezed) and vehicles I've driven with non-servo drum brakes give better braking with less pedal effort.
Out of interest, whose (which manufacturer) conversion was it that Martyn was commenting about on 101s, with dodgy discs? I imgaine that 101 discs would be unique (everything else is on 101s :-)), so might only be an issue with the 101 conversion, not with others.
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