SWB/LWB Logbooks

I've got an iveco turbodaily van, had problems with the log book not saying anything more than 'iveco panel van' for it's description, last owner had it on private plates, had to have a new log book for the new plates, and that had half he information missing that identifies this vehicle, iveco made a few panel vans so i wanted it changed,

i was told that tere are only certian things that get put on the log book by the dvla computer, if you don't tell them the details they just pick a generic description, you can if you are persistiant get almost anything put on the vehicle description, i know someone who has the name he made up for his home built kit car as his description,

Anyway, i sent off the log book with the description written next to the model type, sent a letter with it explaining why i wanted it changing (that the van is to going be a motorhome to travel europe next year, and i'd had problems with italian border guards last year in my last van.. all because it didn't say 'motorhome' on the vehicle description plate in the cab!.. just said what it origionaly was.. a panel van)

Anyway 6 weeks later i had recieved nothing, phoned them up to be told they never got my log book back, fill in a V62 form and try for another one, Did that, putting a letter in saying that the origional log book was sent in to have the description put right, and put what i wanted it to read.

2 weeks later i got a new log book, had all the details i had asked for and one i didnt.. SWB after the model of the van, iveco never made a SWB version of the my type of daily van, and with a 4 meter wheel base it's hardly a short un.. on the dealer print out of what was ordered when new.. it's classed as an XLWB van,

i phoned them up and was told they couldent change the wheel base part, it was something the computer had decided to tag onto the end, and i wasn't to worry about it, as the description is only supposed to be rough, it's the vin and engine numbers that must be right.

so i reluctiantly left it, hopeing to sort it out when i send the log book in again to have panel van changed to motorhome, The next day another log book arrives in the post, i can only assume it's the origional one that was 'lost' as dvla take 2 weeks not 12 hours to send them out, and wouldent send one out with out having my other one back.

BUT this other one has all the details correct like the make and model, and tagged on after the model type is LWB!!!

i darent send one of them back in-case dvla decide to scrap the vahicle on the log book :) so i now have a choice of log books depending on if the van feels long or short :))

Doesn't the chassis number detail all sorts of things (fuel, engine, transmission, length, body etc)? Mine is

SAL Manufacturer code: Land Rover LB Model: Series III (Stage One, or LightWeight, for early models) C Wheel base: 109 inch (LWB) A Body type: Pickup, hood cab, truck cab, soft/hard top (2-door) V Engine type: 3.5L V8 petrol, carburettor

1 Steering and transmission: RHD, 4-speed manual (LT95, or other) A Model year: 1979 to 1987 (All models) A Assembly location: Solihull, UK

Olly R

Another major step forward by the DLA to reduce vehicle crime .............

On later ones it does but on the early one it's just numbers which don't refer to any particular build spec AFAIK Mines was first registered 1982 but with a declared manufacture date of '71 it's a series 3 but all the numbers (chassis,engine and gearbox) say its a 2a

Andy

The SALLXYZ type number is a VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) which is applicable to some Series and all later Land Rover Products (not sure about early RR) It was a truly international attempt to standardise chassis numbers as, previously, each manufacturer did as they pleased and (I think) it became a requirement here in the late 1970s ??? Try visiting this site

which I foundusing a Google - I do not know how accurate the info is but it looks useful. My Ser2a has no VIN, no stamped in number and is missing the bulkhead plate that had the number on it (plate is currently in the shed) this makes stealing/ringing such a vehicle dead easy so you can see why the manufacturers brought in the VIN system and why we made it law that the plate needed to be affixed to the car and if the chassis number was removed (e.g. by welding on a new dumb iron) it should be restamped.

Ringing and stealing for parts stripping has also got harder as most manufacturers started to keep computerised records of parts allocated to individual chassis (or shell for monocoques) and this means that plod can now often trace components back to a specific vehicle - this makes ringing the more modern Land Rover harder than a Series model - an example being axle casings - serial numbered and recorded these days.

DVLA holds all the information that you see on your logbook and the historical changes. When a police officers runs a check on say, your index number, the police computer will spit back the logbook details plus any markers that the police may have added on their own computer system (which in this respect is separate entirely from DVLA so whilst the police may have marked your vehicle as 'being involved in drive by shooting at Mitsubishi dealers - if seen applaud driver' this information is for police eyes only and will not find its way to Swansea for some pimply youth at DVLA to read)

So if your Land Rover is not quite what the logbook, and thus what the PNC says and you get stopped you are depending on the knowledge and experience of the officer who is dealing with you - my logbook shows the Ser 2a as a '2-axle-rigid body light 4x4 utility', there's no engine number on the log book and the chassis number is on there but not on the vehicle. Most would leave it at that but they may run a check on the engine number under the bonnet - that comes back as 'no trace' as the number has never been recorded at DVLA for my vehicle or any other (it's an ex-army spare engine fitted before I bought the vehicle). So the officer is simply left with an old Land Rover - a specialist vehicle crimes officer may have access to further manufacturers info (unlikely in the case of a 1968 Land Rover but lets pretend he does - it's all recorded somewhere so you never know). This info would tell him: chassis number on PNC/DVLA = 241******D i.e. this vehicle should be a Series

2a SWB The glass fitted is Triplex Toughened with various numbers and the old British Standard Kite Mark - quick check in the glass book would show that this glass was fitted to Land Rovers manufactured say, 1965-1970.

So it would now come down to the discretion of the officer - whilst the car is genuine he sees a vehicle of apparently the correct age but lacking any chassis numbers, it has no engine number on his computer but there is a newer engine under the bonnet. There may be enough there in his eyes to impound the vehicle for further examination and, maybe, arrest me too on suspicion of theft/ringing whatever (factor in attitude of driver when stopped too :-)

OK I know that is an unlikely scenario in the case of a 35 year old Land Rover and, in my experience most policemen want to talk about the vehicle rather than tear it to bits but you can see how with more modern and valuable vehicles it starts to get easier to spot the possible ringers/stolen ones.

And the biggest problem with putting a 109 on the 88 log book? The first three digits of your chassis number :-)

Graeme

There seems to some confusion here, as I read the thread. A VIN number is, as correctly stated, an internationalised chassis numbering system, but in terms of identifying a vehicle there is no more information in it than was present in the old chassis numbers - the difference being that a VIN number is coded in a fixed format, whereas the old chassis numbers coding was entrirely at the descretion of the maufacturer. However, it is still necessary to have access to the manufacturer's codes to decipher it fully in either case. In either case, the vehicle must have one to be legal - even if it is home made! For SIII vehicles, the codes are listed in the front of the parts book.

Richard

Ours doesn't have the seating capacity but it does say it's 109"

Gaynor

OK here's the legal skinny from the MoT Tester's Guide

A Vehicle Identification Number (VIN or chassis number) is required on all vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1980. except those which are . kit cars . amateur built vehicles

Check that the vehicle is permanently displaying a legible Vehicle Identification Number (this can either be . on a VIN plate secured to the vehicle. or . stamped or etched on the vehicle body or chassis

So I guess that puts most Series Land Rovers out of the frame prior to that date you do not need either a chassis number stamped in or a VIN plate to be road legal in the UK

Right - the VIN as an identification aid

The VIN number on all modern vehicles can be broken down using the international standard to identify a specific vehicle by at least the manufacturer and model - the more modern the car then the more information the VIN number will tend to contain. It will, at the very least, tell an observer that he should be looking at a certain make and model of vehicle - probably including engine and gearbox type. Here's an example from a Land Rover product on my driveway: SALLHAML3FA000001 This tells the observer that he is looking at

SALLHA - Land Rover Product Built by Rover at Solihull England ML3 - four door automatic Range Rover with V8 petrol engine FA - it's a 1989 model

000001 - actual serial number of the car

Now that's starting to get somewhere in the realms of identifying the vehicle.

My Series 2a, on the other hand, has the chassis number 241xxxxxxxx - all that tells us is that it should be an 88" - pure and simple.

To take a more modern example:

1FBSS31L3WHB88492

That VIN tells the reader that he should be looking at a 1988 Ford E350 Schoolbus, V8 SOHC 16V EFi petrol engine, hydraulic brakes, RWD, built in Lorain, Ohio, XLT Trim Level blah blah blah

If that's not bad enough read on.....

The VIN Plate also carries other fields with stamped in items like paint colour, trim details, axle ratios, country of manufacture etc etc - again different manufacturers plates carry different fields. Hence plod, armed with the necessary manuals, can tell pretty much everything about what sort of vehicle should be hiding under the VIN plate he is looking at.

VIN plates are also held onto the vehicle by different fastenings depending on the manufacturer - again a good copper can spot if the rivets/whatever are not the original type as used by the manufacturer - yes they do differ greatly and nothing excites more than an obviously tampered with VIN Plate

So the VIN will pretty much identify the type of vehicle and the other fields on the plate will tell what trim and equipment may be fitted. Just to add to the agony there are also a multitude of stickers, tags and the like plastered all over the engine bay - these will also relate to trim and equipment levels (including engine/gearbox info) so if they do not match the vehicle either then you have more explaining to do.

Graeme

p.s. Sorry if I'm boring but I do know this subject - I spent several happy years as plod pulling ringers off the road - mostly they were Fords (XR2 and XR3 sorts) but Discos and Range Rovers were also a frequent source of positive results although most of them (IMHO) were nicked and exported pronto. The manufacturers and police forces pool resources to try and reduce ringing and it is, rightly so, getting trickier all the time.

In 1971 it would have been a IIa, which is why the Chassis number says it's a IIa.

Alex

In article , Graeme writes

If you take bits off your Landy and put it back together in an amateurish fashion, does that count :)

'Fraid not - mines all put back on in an amateurish fashion but still just counts as a Ser 2a..... I reckon kit cars is self explanatory and an 'amateur built' would be a proper Q Plated one (and those Ser 1 and 2a coil sprung V8s that are somehow driving on a tax exempt plate - now that's what I want :-)

Graeme