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Maintainable diesels

Know what you mean about those Astra DTI engines - much more sharp sort of rattly sound than the Pug engine used in your old Rover. Which, incidentally, was a bloody good engine.

I suppose the thing is with a lot of modern diesels, that they're not neccessarily *more* economical than the older ones, but they're much more powerful and refined (refined being a largely subjective thing), whilst still being similar in economy, with the theory I suppose being that with all that extra power they get forgiven if they're not quite as economical as the older-style diesels.

Suppose and Peugeot/Citroen pre-HDI - the 1.9TD engine (XUD I think) was a cracker (similar, if not identical in all but size to the one in your Rover) and featured in loads of 306s/406s. The 2.1TD in the 406 and XM was also pretty good - not sure what the pros + cons are of that vs the 1.9, but I think it's a fairly similar engine.

You more or less get that with a relatively low-powered turbo-diesel as well. Try a 90bhp VAG 1.9TDI - you'll be very impressed. Should be reasonably cheap in early Audi 80s, Mk3 VW Golfs/Polos, Seat Ibizas/Leons etc. I briefly had a Seat Ibiza 1.9TDI-90 and you could put your foot down in 5th gear at about 1400rpm and it's still happily accelerate from there (maybe not on a steep uphill climb, but everything has its limits). Ok, so it's got modern fandangled equipment to an extent, but not to anywhere near the extent a lot more modern stuff has, and it's got the advantage that it's been around for 15 years, and loads of people are very familiar with the engines, and they very rarely fail in any complex way.

Another one worth considering (other than a Maestro/Montego with the Perkins lump, which is absolutely fantastic) is anything with the Rover L-series diesel (basically an updated version of the Perkins engine - 16v I think). Apparently the cambelt + tensioners are a bit of a liability, but if you get them changed (or see evidence that they have been recently) then things should be fine. Basically, pretty much all the good points of the old Perkins engines in bodyshells that don't rust to pieces before your very eyes.

Heh - good plan. Is the Rangey LPG? Old V8 LPG Rangey is the way to go, I'd say.....

Reply to
AstraVanMan
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Clive George ( snipped-for-privacy@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

The Rover 200 used the 1769, though, not the 1905.

But, yes, ZX/306/Xsara - although the facelifted Xsara (the ugly one rather than the bland one) used multiplexed 'lecktrickery - which kinda knocks the "the radio is the most sophisticated electronic component?" out the water.

You'd also need to make sure it was an older one without electronic pump.

Reply to
Adrian

EFI petrol cars have been around since the '70s. Doesn't seem to have made them less reliable - quite the reverse. Diesels have just been late in catching up...

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Dave Plowman (News) ( snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

60s, even.
Reply to
Adrian

That's mostly a reflection on how crap carbs + old fashioned HT electrics were though - mechanical diesel pumps are rather more reliable to start with.

cheers, clive

Reply to
Clive George

Electronic fuel injection in the '60s? Which one?

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

70's perhaps. Wasn't there some Lucas system fitted to triumph 2000 models? 2000pi perhaps or even 2500pi?

Huw

Reply to
Huw

Dave Plowman (News) ( snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Bosch D-Jetronic was on a pile of stuff from about 67ish onwards - German mainly, but the DS 21ie was launched in August '69.

D-Jet was electronic, Bosch went back to mechanical for K-Jet then electronic again for L-Jet.

Reply to
Adrian

That was mechanical.

Anyway the first ones actually the 50s :-)

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Reply to
Duncanwood

It was? The first fuel injected car I owned was the mechanical K-Jetronic Golf Gti 1800. Just after that but possible while I still had the GTi we bought an electronic MG Montego which was certainly a torquey and economical engine. Lots of bits failed on the car though, but not the actual engine and fuel system, just everything bolted on and around the engine with three metres of it.

Huw

Reply to
Huw

2500PIs where lovely but even less reliable than the carburettor versions, thereagain I can't ever recall a problem with the SUs on my 2500.
Reply to
Duncanwood

Huw (hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Yep, the Triumph/Lucas injection was mechanical. First seen on the TR5 in '67, then on the TR6 and 2500PI.

Same year D-Jetronic came out, first on VW type III.

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Reply to
Adrian

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Huw" saying something like:

The Lucas mechanical system fitted to the 2500pi used a swash-plate pump. Some keen types have retro-fitted the Bosch K system to the 2500pi and gained a huge degree of reliability.

Reply to
Grimly Curmudgeon

Long before VW sold water-cooled cars, they offered Bosch electronic fuel injection as an option on the 1600cc Type-3. This was the first EFI (that I'm aware of) available on an affordable car. I worked for the Australian VW distributor at the time, but I don't remember what year it was first sold. It was around 1970.

John

Reply to
John Henderson

The system fitted to the Triumph was mechanical. The Rover SD1 Vitesse had the first EFI system in the UK.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Wasnt the Volvo P1800ES with the D-Jetronic or possibly the Saab 99 EMS the first EFI cars in the uk?

Tim..

Reply to
Tim..

Dave Plowman (News) ( snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

First *British* car, p'raps. But if it was, then the British motor industry was - yet again - utterly tardy.

SD1 Vitesse came out in October '82. By that stage, L-Jet was fairly common on a whole PILE of cars.

I'd be amazed if nothing else "British" used electronic injection before that. Whatever "British" might mean.

Reply to
Adrian

I had the VW 411 Estate in 1969. The *EFI* petrol engine was in a well behind the passenger seat where traditionally the spare wheel is. This ruggedly built, compact estate of unconventional design, was exceptionally well put together, which was unusual at the time -- e.g. the doors were closed shut with a muffled 'ook', not a 'klannnn'; the metal panels too were thicker than the ones used nowadays, if I wasn't mistaken

-- which continued the highly regarded engineering tradition of the Beetle in the 60's. (Wasn't there a commercial of a Beetle half floating on water, with no leak?) I always remember fondly this model alongside the venerable Beetle and the Kombi.

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Reply to
Lin Chung

Dunno - they're not UK made cars. ;-)

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

I liked my old GM 1.7 diesel, but I think the XUD is a more likely direction to take. A 306 estate is a possibility - I must check whether the Boss can see out of them.

Good thought - I'd not really considered VAG - a bit foreign, y'know.

Hmmm. Weren't some? most? L series electronically-controlled?

No - mine's a 300tdi auto. I had an LPG V8 for a while, but spent as long planning routes and refuelling it as I did driving. 11mpg towing doesn't give much of a range with 72-litre underslung tanks, and with a trailer on you don't want to be faffing about round the back of sheds on industrial estates looking for lpg, so I finished up buying too much of it at top prices at motorway services.

And to Huw's "Take it as you like. This is Usenet after all :-)" I'd just add "Aye, and mine was pure sarcasm :-)"

Thanks to all for the suggestions and comments: food (or fuel) for thought.

Reply to
Autolycus

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