paint types

I've got a 1979 VW camper which I want to respray. I'm confused about the types of paint available. I'm told that some types are not compatible with others. What would the original type of paint be, and is this best for respraying. Also what type of paint do you usually get in an aerosol can. Are there likely to be compatibility problems there?

I'm likely to have to do the job outside.

Can anybody give me names of actual products?

Reply to
Burlington Bertie
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Burlington Bertie ( snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

More to the point, what can you actually buy?

Environmental regs have tightened up a lot lately, and you can't actually get any of the previous stuff any more, IIRC (or you can, just, but not after next week or something).

Anyway, most of the old-styley paint was allegedly more likely to kill you than a half-starved rabid pitbull.

Cheap shit paint.

Not if prepped properly.

Get a brush. Try spraying outside, especially with rattle-cans, and it'll be shit. Guaranteed.

Dulux. Works for me.

Reply to
Adrian

=================================== Brush painting for an older vehicle especially if you have to work outside is quite a good idea. Two paints that were commonly available about the time your camper was built are 'Berger' and 'Tekaloid'. Both produced excellent results with a deep solid colour without much practice or skill needed. You'll have to ask around for sources but I'm pretty sure they're still available. One to avoid (maybe dead and gone) is 'Brushing Belco'.

Cic.

Reply to
Cicero

Nah.

This:

Is what he needs.

I'm *very* tempted to get some to slap on the Hongdou.

Reply to
SteveH

The VW camper could have been sprayed in any combination of paints in

1979, twin-pack, cellulose, acrylic but not water based paints as it was too early. If the paintwork is in original condition you can paint almost any paint over the top.

Question is though do you want to spray or use a brush?

Contrary to reports you can still buy cellulose and twin-pack paints (if you know where to look) but these need to be sprayed, or you can use a brushing synthetic better known as coach paint.

Compatibility problems only occur when you use cellulose over synthetic or apply solvent based paint over very recently painted paint as this can cause solvent reactions.

Or you could use an isolating paint or a barrier coat first then you can paint over any paint even synthetic with any paint.

You can get any paint put in an areosol but you'll never get a decent finish with it.

You'll find some info on my website.

Stephen.

Reply to
Stephen Hull

SteveH ( snipped-for-privacy@italiancar.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Hmmm. And they do "Pink Panther", too...

The 4x4 needs painting.

Reply to
Adrian

Stephen's post is on the money with what's likely to be on it. It's a VW camper, so it's liable to be rusty, so you need to decided if you're going to do a lash up or do it properly and bare metal all the rust.

Aerosol can paint is s**te, often synthetic enamel, which IMO is a nightmare, cellulose is apparently OK, 2 pack is very good, but also very poisonous. It's getting difficult to get cellulose now - less and less places are mixing it as it's only for use on classic restos now. Single stage 2 pack (ie, you spray it, it's glossy, it's the top coat) is relatively easy to get in commercial flavours. Clear and base 2 pack is less so. Water based base coats and 2k lacquers are what it's moving towards, and pretty much all you'll be able to get from an auto paint factors by the end of the year.

I've just sprayed my car with u-poxy 2 pack acid etch primer - very nasty stuff, needs to be sprayed, phosphoric acid content, so you need an air fed mask. Then I used Lechler's filler primer, again 2 pack, this time with isocyanates, so you need an air fed mask. I then top coated with a Spies Hecker 2 pack single stage, again with isocyanate content and the need for an air fed mask. I used a Devilbiss gun (not cheap), a 3 phase compressor (not cheap), and a 1 phase compressor to run my mask.

All in all, it's pretty much done, just waiting for me to polish it and reassemble it. 8 months after I took it to pieces. Pretty much every free weekend was spent sanding the car for that period, often with a couple of mates helping. It's a *very* labour intensive job to get right, particularly if you've not done much spraying before and have to make rectifications. I'm now pretty happy with the car, and have a couple of small dings in one of the doors that I obviously didn't check over closely enough when I was prepping it.

I also used fairly fast thinners and hardeners, so the car was dust proof within a few minutes of spraying. It still managed to pick up a fair amount of s**te despite being sprayed a tent within a shed which I cleaned fastidiously before spraying.

IMO spraying outside is an absolute no hope. You can expect to spend at least £15 a litre for 2 pack paint, plus hardeners and thinners, adding up to around £150 for five litres of paint + all the bobbins. If I were you I'd lash over the thing in whatever colour cellulose I could get cheap with a brush (say 5 litres off ebay), and hope it keeps the rust at bay for a while, sanding with P1500 and using rubbing compound if finish matters. The only way to do a proper job on something like a camper would be to strip it completely and you're talking several months work and a grand's worth of kit and consumables to spray.

And as you may have picked up from this post, I don't think it's a good idea to use synthetic paint. It's very cheap, but it has very specific demands for recoating times, and fairly long drying times. These are typically "within a couple of days, or a year later". Get it wrong and the whole lot wrinkles. And apparently you can't sand and polish it. Get a run and it'll be soft for months.

Reply to
Doki

Thanks folks for your helpful comments. Eventually I will get around to doing the main body work so I'm trying to decide what to use. For now I need to do the fibreglass roof and I had been thinking of rolling on some Tekaloid.

I had a camper which I sprayed in cellulose, including the roof, about

10 years ago. It was a lousy finish as I gave myself about 6 weeks to complete it before going on holiday, and I'd never used a spray gun before and never since, but discussion elsewhere suggests it's not that hard if I use the right materials and give it enough time.

If I go to an auto paint supplier then and I don't want two pack paint, am I right in saying that the choices are between cellulose and acrylic paint? Is acrylic synthetic paint? If cellulose is phased out can I use acrylic over the top. I'm told that you can't spray cellulose over acrylic but I guess that's not going to be a problem in future.

Reply to
Burlington Bertie

IMO the choice is between cellulose (where available) and Synthetic. Two-pack is not for home use, Acrylic is very similar to cellulose.

You can paint over cellulose with acrylic and vice versa providing the original paint is old and if the new paint is applied dryish initially, however applying a barrier coat is recommended to avoid solvent reaction.

You CANNOT apply cellulose over synthetic but you CAN apply synthetic over cellulose.

Stephen.

Reply to
Stephen Hull

Sorry to jump in...

So, can I apply an acrylic clear lacquer over my custom-mixed cellulose paint ? Or will the colour be wrong ?

then I suppose I need a cellulose primer?

Reply to
paulfoel

I was under the impression that "cellulose" these days is in actual fact acrylic paint but I'm not sure why.

I've done some cars with spray cans and it's do-able but I've always had to flat and polish afterwards.

If you want a very shiny plasticky finish then you need the two-pack stuff and it's better to prep well then take it to a cheap spray place than try it yourself.

Reply to
adder1969

You can paint over it if you're careful but not recommended, lacquer can't make the colour wrong providing the base colour is sufficiently dry or hard.

Are you using aerosols or a spray gun?

Stephen.

Reply to
Stephen Hull
[snip]

Acrylic paint is very similar to cellulose, its the solvents that are different, basically Acrylic is more resin like than cellulose, also it dries faster is more brittle and tougher than cellulose.

Twin-pack paint tends to be mostly acrylic these days but the early twin-packs were synthetic based.

All automotive paints require some degree of flatting and certainly polishing to obtain maximum gloss.

Twin-packs also contain the dreaded isocyanate, which is not for home use.

Stephen.

Reply to
Stephen Hull

Yes, I meant for that reason. Last car I did was a '60s Mk1 Mini which was done in cellulose type paint and looked a whole lot more original than a friend's who got his done professionally with two pack. On a 70's camper I guess it doesn't matter so much.

I seem to remember spraying over old paint and old spray-can paint no problem but it didn't like hammerite.

Reply to
adder1969

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