Peugeot 106 Ignition wiring

Hi again, can anyone advise me on the interchangeability (or otherwise) of various parts of the ignition circuitry on this '03 plated Peugeot 106d
'Zen' ?
As mentioned in a previous posting, ignition key was stuck in barrel, steering lock was on and no way to move (or remove) the key.
I've managed to persuade the key to turn far enough for the steering lock to drop back. At the moment I'm unwilling to gamble on moving the key around for fear of locking it up again. so what I'm after doing right now is 'hotwiring' it to get it running. I don't think the electronic circuitry around the barrel is damaged, although I suppose it could be. I'm making this posting as I take a break to look up the colour coding to try to avoid the hotwire bodge involving any *literally* hot wires..
The information I'm requesting is WRT replacing the barrel without buying a full lock set (awkward blasted manufacturer). I think I may be able to replace the mechanics of the lock with a scrap one, use the replacement key to move the switch, and the electronics from the original to provide RF authorisation. Both keys on same fob for long enough to earn price of a full repair.
So, if that is a viable workaround, do I need to use the same receiver board, or will the one that comes with the scrap barrel do the job? Is the coding burnt into that chip in any way or is it purely embedded in the ECU's programming?
Is there anything else I need to worry about? For a start, I've never dealt with an airbagged car before. All I'm sure of is that battery disconnection reduces the chance of false triggering and that there's a backup rechargeable or capacitor, meaning I've then got to be careful not to ground the wrong wire. I've never even seen behind the steering wheel facia (will buy a star drive to fit tomorrow) so I've no idea what's there or how it works.
The gist of it being that I know enough, to know that I don't know enough, and that I *really* don't fancy learning the 'exciting' way..
Any help or hints would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks if so
Dave Johnson
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Dave J. wrote:

Take the steering column shroud to bits. It usually unscrews from underneath in Peugeots (going by my experience of various 306s and a 205). It's usually in 2 halves and you probably won't have to take the steering wheel off to do it. Not having to remove the wheel means you don't have to fuck about with the airbag, which is good.
The screws'll probably be torx, and quite deeply recessed more than likely. Normal sockets with torx heads may not cut the mustard as the head may not be long enough. I used some long ones I found in a set of "300 for a fiver" drillbits.
Once the upper and lower bits of plastic are away you can see reasonably clearly how the whole ignition barrel/steering lock gubbins works.
The ignition barrel is probably held in with some kind of rivet or security headed screw, I'm afraid I never investigated on my 306 when I recently changed the heater matrix (complete dash and most of the steering column had to be removed).
The immobiliser 'aerial' is a black shroud that fits over the ignition barrel.
Look out for, and don't bugger about with, orange wires, they seem to be SRS/airbag workings (that's the explosive stuff). It's probably good working practice to disconnect the battery and have a cup of tea/wait 10 minutes) before mucking about in the steering column shroud.
Have you got a Haynes manual for it? If not, it could be worth it. It'll have all the procedures you need for dismantling and reassembly of the bits you want.
If you change the barrel from a scrapper, having the original car key on the same keyring will probably be enough to fool the immobiliser. I'm not sure but if you get the whole lock and key set along with the immobiliser aerial from a scrapper and swap them over you could be laughing. Perhaps more bother than its worth.
As to the interchangability, 106s come in 2 general phases, older ones are less curvy IIRC. You probably want your donor to be a Diesel, and roughly of the same age, the electromagics have a better chance of being the same then, but don't get hung up on it being zackerly the same reg or spec level, I'd be fairly confident that they all came with immobilisers by then and there's a good chance that the steering column, keys, ignition barrels and steering locks came from the same stock over the entire production run.
I'd not bother trying to hotwire it, you'll probably just bugger the loom and make trying to fix it properly a bit of a nightmare.
Please note that I could be wrong on any or all of the above.
And I'd like to re-iterate that improperly mucking about with the airbag can easily get you killed.
Good luck!
--
Douglas

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+0000, in uk.rec.cars.maintenance, 'Douglas Payne' wrote:

[...]
Got the shroud off early on, used an allen key to persuade what looks like star-drive screws out of their sockets.

Do they look like star drives?
I haven't managed to get the front facia off the steering wheel, I assume that's how you remove it but I'm very wary of the airbag that must be hidden away in there and anyhow, the only way I'll get it off is to get the proper tool set. Yes, they are deeply recessed, and I'll have to search around for someone to sell me the right kit for undoing them. As above, do they look similar to star drive fittings? These are really really tiny, maybe a millimetre across.

Yes, got to get the indicator/wiper switches out of the way (again, lack of toolkit)
Anyhow, I tried the straightforward 'hotwire', *think* I got the connections right, all the lights came on in the right order and it spun, but certainly no cigar.

The shroud on this one has been broken in the past and superglued back into place. I tried tugging at the entire casing in the hope of seeing more and the superglued bit came away. Can see the coil but it looks intact.
Maybe I've fried the RF detection electronics somehow, or maybe there's some interaction between the mechanical switch and the circuit board which I can't see. Maybe I didn't get the switch bypass *quite* right.
Whatever/whichever, immobilised, good style. Heater comes on and goes off after correct delay, spins sweet as you like, but won't fire.
Absolutely gutted. Straws and camels, family tragedy, kind of hard to ride in and help out on a crippled camel..
I don't suppose there's any sort of 'reset' process that's supposed to be carried out after total disconnection? Or have I just broken it? :-(

I assume the airbag's behind the facia I haven't yet removed? I was told there's a small battery/large capacitor to act as backup in the event of a crash and that if I ground the wrong wire, even with the main battery disconnected I risk dangerous results.

Nah, that's not the problem. Not knowing for sure how the switching works, maybe that's the problem. I just unplugged wires from the ignition barrel where they join the main loom and wedged wires in behind the plugs. This could perhaps be why I can't get it going.
Do you happen to know the symptoms when it's immobilised? Is it normal for all the dashboard lights, the heater timer, everything to apparently work correctly but without anything firing? If not then I must be -> <- that close to getting it running.
[snip comments about interchangability not being too much of a problem]

Thanks very much for the advice and the warning. Advice part's quite reassuring (in as far as it's possible to reassure someone who thinks they may have knackered an expensive car)
Dave J.
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in uk.rec.cars.maintenance, 'Dave J.' wrote:

As in not knowing for sure which wires do what. Though it seems to work exactly as it should..
Dave
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Have you got the ignition key stuck next to the sensor coil, spinning but not firing is normal behaviour if it's still immobilised.
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uk.rec.cars.maintenance, 'Duncan Wood' wrote:

Key's still in the lock, daren't move it. The one thing that's gone right today is that the steering's no longer locked up, meaning it should be quite straightforward to change the barrel. Just for luck I put the other key nearby too. Still no life. Looks to be damage to the chip or the RF coil.
Also, they've used solid core wires to connect to the electronics. Seems a daft idea, solid core in a motor vehicle.
Can't think of any further diagnostics until I've got proper tools. Unless anyone'd like to chip in with corrections to my method of bypassing the mechanical switching. I'm not convinced I've got it quite right, though probably mostly thanks to a hope that the problem's something simple.
For the sake of any future Peugeot 106 googlers, the bolts that hold the steering shroud and wiper/headlight assemblies in place are indeed 'Torx' fittings (12 point start drive). Did an image search to confirm. No idea of size beyond 'couple of mill-ish'.
Thanks
Dave
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Dave J. wrote:

Sorry, mis-interpreted how far you'd got.

The very fellows.

The airbag is probably held on with 2 torx headed bolts on the back of the steering wheel. It'll just lift out of the steering wheel after that, if it's like the 306, there'll be 2 wires connected to a little plug that pushes into the back of the airbag unit.
Make sure there's no latent electrickery in the system (have cup of tea after disconnecting battery as mentioned before) when you're plugging or unplugging it and be careful with it, store it somewhere dry and where, if it does go off, it won't hurt anybody. Put it down on its back, as I read that it'll happily fire itself a long way into the air if you put it down on its front and it goes off. There are probably videos on youtube. (c:

Yeah, you need a nice set of Torx bits.

Sounds rightly immobilised to me. My 306 also flashes a light on the instrument cluster when it's being turned over whilst immobilised. A sort of flash flash... flash flash... flash flash while it turns over.

Superglue? Alarm bells are ringing. This is the steering column shroud?

Heh. I'd be inclined to hire a Camel if there was any potential peril.

I dunno if the coil is matched to the key, I never had the chance to experiment, but there's no reset process as far as I know. I just plugged mine back in after a couple of days and it fired up.

Switching - the engine needs fuel and air. To get the fuel it needs electricity to energise the stop solenoid on the fuel pump. The immobiliser interrupts this if it can't see an RF chip in a key at the coil on the ignition barrel. Your engine sounds immobilised to me as you've got all the idiot lights and the starter turning by jumping the connections, all thats missing is fuel presumably.
The coil's connector definately hasn't been dislodged, and it's wires are all definately intact? It's not unknown for the coils to fail.
Heh, perhaps, there's some vital pair of wires you haven't connected. Hope you get it going but I'd be getting me some tools, and going after a barrel/key/coil set off some scrap vehicle and trying me some experiments tomorrow. Dunno if the RF chips are coded to the pump or the coil.

I don't think you'll have knackered it completely. Might cost a few quid in bits to fix though.
--
Douglas

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wrote:

Normally the pumps ecu. The coils fairly dumb (totally dumb on many cars)

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+0000, in uk.rec.cars.maintenance, 'Douglas Payne' wrote:

The shroud I mean is the plastic ring around the lock.
So much for the idea of early to bed and early to rise, tried it, failed, and even usenet isn't enough to put me to sleep :)
Why do you say alarm bells are ringing? Looks to me as if some clumsy technician has bashed it while fixing something else. Car was definitely gone over with a fine toothed comb before it was sold. To the extent that I'm halfway inclined to question the mileage.
Thanks again, I'll let you know how I get on if you're a regular reader here.
Dave J.
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Dave J. wrote:

The round black thing with the little multiplug at the back? If the housing's cracked or broken, that's where I'd put my money at the moment as far as the non starting thing goes.

Looks at the moment from what you say like some clumsy chap has broken it, bodged it with superglue as a temporary fix and now its failed completely, possibly because of the struggling with the gubbed steering lock.
--
Douglas

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+0000, in uk.rec.cars.maintenance, 'Douglas Payne' wrote:

Not that it really makes a difference, but no, the housing/facia in front of the pickup coil, the plastic 'rim' you see around the lock. I've looked inside as much as I can, without removing the rest of the facia for fear of causing any (further) damage, the coil appears intact.
Please see my other posting if you've any ideas over the immobilisation. It's the sort of fault that would normally cause me to double check I've plugged everything in correctly, but AFAICT I have and everything's where it should be.
The other possibility is that I've misuderstood the switch wiring and there's something wrong with my 'hotwire' technique. I didn't receive the car-theft apprenticship that seems to be provided for youngsters in this area. Could do with being fifteen again and hanging around with the 'back of shed' smoking crew for a while ;(
Anyhow, I'm off outside to continue tinkering. At least the weather's improved :)
Thanks
Dave.
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+0000, in uk.rec.cars.maintenance, 'Douglas Payne' wrote:

OK, well I've managed to almost dismantle the steering column. The thing that was holding me as the light faded tonight was a plug at the back of the assembly behind the wheel. It takes the airbag feed from the rotating cuff to the wiring loom. There's a plug/socket fitting that I think is secured some sort of pry apart/squeeze together trick to stop it falling off. Only snag is I can't see how because of where it is.
To fit your (Douglas) 306 experience, it's the 'orange wire' output from the back of the steering assembly. The wire travels from the airbag, to a rotating cuff inside the steering wheel.
The rotating cuff then feeds out to a static socket around the back of the indicator/wiper assembly. I can't get the plug out of that static socket. Without removing that I can't move the cuff, and without removing the cuff I don't think I can get the switch assembly out of the way. Without moving that assembly I'm never going to figure out how to replace the ignition barrel.
So far I've successfully pulled the plug to pieces (and put it back together) but I can't persuade it to disengage and, as the car's not wholly mine I'm not willing to be quite as brutish as I would on the well maintained museum piece I'd prefer.
Is it just Peugeots or have all modern cars become plasticised nightmares to work on?
Oh, and a definite 'thanks' to whomsoever said they'd got a necessary tool from a pound-shop. The smallest star drive is missing from my kit (hadn't realised it's a 'torx' kit) and the local pound-shop obligingly provided a strange square tool which mysteriously fitted. My kit fits the rest.
Anyone dealt with that airbag feed plug/socket before? What's the trick?
I won't get away with cutting the wire and stripblocking it together as there isn't the clearance for the plug to travel through the hole. :-(
Thanks for any help
Dave
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+0000, in uk.rec.cars.maintenance, 'Douglas Payne' wrote:

Can anyone tell me about the immobilisation methodology, I've seen mention of 'resetting' WRT other cars and I wonder if there's a parallel on the Peug 106 '03.
Also, is there anything I'm supposed to do after the system's been powered down by battery disconnection?
As a last resort, I've seen mention that there at least *was* a way to bypass the immobiliser, which is something I would have thought impossible. Unfortunately, that may only apply to older versions.
Does anyone know any more detail?
Thanks
Dave
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