Should I let him get away with this?

Um, the car that's been scrapped? As evidence perhaps?

There's a lot of talk here about "pay cheap get cheap" but there is a point to be made about the ethics of selling a car with rusty seatbelt location areas. Further to this though, is the point that 9/10 sellers would be blissfully unaware of this problem - and could be called "stupidly ignorant" but not deliberately negligent. You didn't spot these problems on inspection did you? That's the only lesson to take away from this - but you really shouldn't be too hard on yourself.

(And no, I don't subscribe to the notion that cars that cost under £1000 are automatically s**te, and I shouldn't expect to get another MoT or year's use out of them. That's just blinkered snobbery. I sold a £110 Nova to a new driver two years ago with a full MoT - and I was extremely happy to tell the new owner that his only problem was going to be a faked up door repair. Could we argue that a £375 Nova is three times better? Obviously not, just as a £9000 car will not be immune to problems - perhaps not rust but faulty coilpacks?

There's been mention of drawing a distinction between private sellers and traders. The law involving reasonable warranties on motor vehicles has changed and it's no longer accurate to say that a private seller is above reproach. Similarly, the phrase "sold as seen" is just not worth paper it's written on, especially in the case of serious mechanical failure. The terms "merchantable quality" and "fit for purpose" *do* apply but not quite in the sense that you need them to - ie. a "criminal" sense.

For instance, if the vehicle was advertised as in good condition and refused to drive further than 100 yards *after* the deal (and despite a good test drive) the you do have a case for saying the vehicle is not fit for its primary purpose - regardless of the sellers awareness of the problem.

Your situation is different: you are trying to suggest criminal negligence against the seller or a third party and hold them responsible for a potential safety issue *not* an actual accident.

Also, even the newer laws are subject to interpretation of the definitions of time limits and magnitude of problems. Phrases like "within a reasonable time" and "a non-trivial fault" abound, with only the Magistrate or Judge on the day interpreting these limits. And possibly being overturned by a later Magistrate or Judge.

Just forget the whole thing, but leave aside a mental note to have a good poke around the underside of cheaper cars, even if that means using a torch and old jeans. It's surprising to see just how many buyers do not do this.

I once bought a 79 Celica that had been stood for years unturned for £100, thought maybe some spare bits for my other 2, looked a mess.

In the end it needed 3 tiny holes welded, 1 brake pipe and a tyre, i sold it for 6 times what i paid a coupleof weeks later it was mint.

BTW that car and me was on Deals on Wheels on CH4(and sky stuff), guy drving around in a red car with a Iguana on his shoulder pulling chick and doing donuts. anyone see it? it did say i was from Bolton, when it should have been Sheffield.

I have seen cars looked great but dangerous beyond comprehention.

DocDelete ( snipped-for-privacy@thehomeofnospam.org) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Neither do I - don't get me wrong here... Hell, that's towards the upper end of my normal purchasing price range!

It's just that there *is* a lot of absolute s**te for sale at that sort of price - and when it's something that's "desirable" in certain circles - like a Nova - the chance of a bargain plummets.

A full straight MOT, of course - and that guy got a bargain.

No, but it's got *much* more of a chance of being a shed than a £750 Nova, or a £375 Metro.

Having destroyed the evidence.

Or - even better - take a mate who knows what they're looking for.

It's also perfectly reasonable not to be suprised when they don't.

If B had gone to the garage in the first place instead of landing them in it with the ministry, I bet B would have got money out of them.

I did. Swapped Capri for X1/9, X1/9 turned out to be utterly rotten. Seller vanished with a "f*ck you", garage coughed up £1000 for the rotten X1/9 (actually £700 and a D-reg Scirocco GTS they were asking £700 for) and weren't unpleasant about it.

Richard

If you give a crap about your son's safety, you wouldn't be buying him a decade old Vauxhall Nova for the price of a crap PC.

Richard

A bit harsh I think. I got rid of an 11 year-old Sierra that would have flown an MOT and was as roadworthy as many newer cars. I just didn't want to bother with the timing chain and it was worth hardly anything.

E-mail address, hopefully self-explanatory Andy

Sierra - not desirable to young drivers, though they're bloody good cars to learn how to /drive/ in. Timing chain and no MOT - therefore a known fault. Hardly anything = £10-50, not £375.

£375 will get a great car - there was a lovely Golf 1.6 Driver in black for sale around here for ages for £400 for example, but it will not get a good Nova.

Besides, we don't know what the OP considers to be bad rust. I reckon he's getting all het up and 'won't someone think of the children' because he was too lazy to look under the car and too fecking stupid to try dealing with the garage that MOTd it. I've had Novas with no boot floor before, let along what was probably a small hole on the floor that just happened to be within

30cm of the seatbelt mount - you get them welded! It doesn't cost much!

Either money is not an object, or his kid learns about cars the way everyone else does. You can't claim money isn't an object /and/ chuck a shed at a young driver, and a badly chosen shed at that.

Richard

I don't think your gripe was about the car being safe? I think you bought a shed and when you realised that a cheap car has faults you went to the ministry and brought down a whole world of shit on the mot station! Before you went to the ministry did you know about the corrosion within 30cm ? or was it something else that you have not mentioned that that made you take it there?

A proper Nova of that age is worth a lot more than you paid. you get what you pay for!