tyre pressures in the wet

Care to share your wisdom? or as I suspect do you know f*ck all about f*ck all and suddenly had a burning desire to prove it?

The message from Adrian contains these words:

What is this evidence?

Guy King ( snipped-for-privacy@zetnet.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

That my cars wear their front tyres (evenly) at approximately three times the rate of the rears.

I get about 25k from a pair of fronts (strangely, the XM and the 2cvs are about the same on this, as were the CXs), rears are absolutely immortal -

I had off-brand crap on the front of one of the CXs once. They were utterly lethal. On the back? No problem whatsoever. No change in feel at all.

Citroen put narrower tyres on the rears to the fronts on Ds and CXs from the factory for many years. THAT's how hard they use the rears.

Yes, they're not the norm. But it just proves that the tyre company "rule" is overly broad-brush.

CX and DS cars can drive with only one rear wheel, so it is different. But I would agree that FWD cars should have their best tyres on the front.

ss.

The message from Adrian contains these words:

That's not the issue. The issue is that for /most/ drivers it's safer to have the better tread at the rear because /most/ drivers haven't a clue how to deal with a tail end skid.

Guy King ( snipped-for-privacy@zetnet.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

The fact that the rears wear at one third the rate of the fronts shows how little the actually contribute to grip, in these specific cases.

"How little" while inflated, see what happens when they are flat.

In any case, what is the actual objection to using the part worn rear tyres on the front, all manufacturers recommend moving the rear tyres to the back and swapping the rears left and right every service, in any case.

mrcheerful

So you would rather them have a front wheel skid?

The message from Howard Neil contains these words:

Front wheel skids are a good deal easier to control, particularly for less experienced drivers.

I wonder how many people actually get understeery FWD cars into a tail end skid? (Excluding all the people here who actively try, natch.)

Scott M (smorris_12@delete_this.yahoo.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

It's not that difficult in some - go round a roundabout a bit hard, get somebody pull out in front of you, hit the anchors, and you'll broadside them.

On the majority, though? Nah, never going to happen without SERIOUS abuse.

I am not sure where you get this from. If you corner too fast and the front breaks away, you need to centre the steering wheel and stop braking (if you were braking in the first place). This then means that you are heading straight for oncoming traffic (left hand bend) or whatever makes up the side of the road. To do this effectively requires much practice and a strong nerve. To succeed also requires a bit of luck.

Compare this to a rear wheel skid where you steer in the direction you wish the car to go. For most people this is an automatic response. I know that there is more to it than this and that, without practice, both types of skids present dangers but a beginner at skid control will normally have a higher success rate at controlling a rear wheel skid.

Never mind what others say, try it yourself on a skid pan and you will see what I mean.

Essentially this is true, the main reason for putting new tyres to the rear and bringing the worn rears to the front is because of the changes caused in the dynamics of the car when new tyres are fitted, hence the skidding.

The more worn tyres moved to the front will have more similar driving characteristics than a brand new set on the front. This is generally only an issue with the more "high performance" end of the market, unless of course you have different sizes front to rear. In these cases however you generally find that manufacturers recommned changing in sets of 4. Take the Audi TT (not of course that anyone should drive these), Audi recommend that if you a replacing tyres, minimum of a full axle at a time, if the difference in tread is greater than 3, max 4, mill then all four should be changed.

Generally though if you dirve sensibly then put the tyres where tyou want, that is what suspension systems are designed to deal with.

Howard Neil ( snipped-for-privacy@REMOVETOREPLY.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Maybe for sudden, drastic understeer - but in 99.9% of normal road driving, if the understeer starts to get a bit much, just lift the throttle and the line will tighten. Add a bit more lock in, and all will be back in shape.

Which will be a far more sudden transition. In a FWD car, at least a steady throttle is needed to pull the car through.

Hardly. They'll lift and/or brake, just making it worse by transferring weight forwards and having the loose back catch the front up.

I can see the point in *some* cases for the better tyres to be on the back - not least RWD - but for most nose-happy FWD cars, it's at best a grey area, at worst a bad idea.

It's also backed up by car manufacturers who use space-saver spares, who often advise NOT to use them on the front.

Proff ( snipped-for-privacy@btconnect.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

But going back to FWD cars...

That'll be more to do with the torque-sensing LSDs and centre diff, though.

The message from Howard Neil contains these words:

Experience.

It is the sudden, drastic, skids that require the better tyres.

It is still easier than controlling a serious front wheel skid (not just a little understeer). Try it on a skid pan. Practice is much better than theory.

This supports my view that the better tyres should be on the front.

MikeS ( snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

It can't rewrite the laws of physics. It can only rescue drivers from their own incompetence and wrong reactions.