Engine dead at 41K

Try to divorce yourself from the event and view it as a bit of sport. Sort of a roll playing adventure game. Wind your way through the maze past the trolls and maybe you get $1500 from Mazda.

A year or two back somebody wrote a book about effective complaining, and getting money out of car manufacturers was one of the things discussed at length. Don't remember the name of the book or the author. :(

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:41:22 GMT, Grant Edwards wrote in news:3ffda452$0$41296$ snipped-for-privacy@newsreader.visi.com:

Here's a reading list...

Art of Complaining by Phil Edmonston; Paperback; ISBN 0773710639

Written by the author of the lemon aid books on cars, and this web site:

The Complete Complainer: How to Complain and Get Results by Jasper Griegson; Paperback; 224 Pages; (2000); Metro Books; ISBN

Effective Consumer Complaining: Win - Don't Whine by Ola Kaufman; Paperback; 282 Pages; (1999); Xlibris Corporation; ISBN 0738803790

Complain, Complain, Complain:The Canadian Consumer's Guide to Getting Action by Karen Molson , Illustrator Clive Dobson; Paperback;144 Pages; (1997); Firefly Books, Limited; ISBN 1552090981

I called the 800 number and talked to Mazda. I told them that my cars' engine died at 41K miles and that the dealer diagnosed the problem to be a manufacturing defect as described in bulletin 014/00R.

He took my name, VIN and telephone number, the names of the dealers I dealt with and the expected cost of the repairs. He said a regional rep would get the report, consult with the dealers and then someone would contact me with their response. It would take 2 or 3 days.

I asked him to note that this is my 2nd Miata, also that I brought the car in for service at 30K miles and was told that the car was fine at that time.

He said that it was "weird" that the engine should be dead so early. He said that the decision was not up to him but that response could be anywhere from nothing to full coverage but sometimes they'll only pay for parts. He further volunteered that it's good that I had brought the car in for service because they are more apt to work with customers who have a service history with Mazda.

If the offer is less than full coverage I hope I have an opportunity to discuss it with the decision maker because it will really frustrate me that they allowed a known problem to cost me so much money.

If the offer is less than full coverage and it's relayed to me through someone who is not the decision maker I'm not sure what my next step should be. Writing them a letter I suppose.

I wonder what he could should you with the car on a lift that would show that the engine was bad.

That might help you get some cash.

------------ Alex

Thanks for these updates.

I have to think that if this were me (and I hate doing this type of thing, too)... I'd have to say I'd probably jump on the offer for parts $ and get it over with. I can't say that I would buy another Mazda after that (recognizing that this could be *any* brand here), but I'd just seek a quick resolution.

-fptm

Now, if I could only keep my battery charged?

Gee, not to put gas on the fire, but I don't think "we" are the people to keep telling that "you don't think you will buy a Mazda again !" If "you" ran into a bad deal on a Mazda, I do feel sorry for that. I have had nothing but good service from Mazda. They fixed a leaking head gasket on my "91 4 years after they had worked on it (with over 100,000 miles on it) and never charger me a cent ! They spent 4 days in their shop doing cooling checks for a leak and did not charge me a cent ! As it turned out, it was a "new" rad. cap "I" had put on, that was the problem. So you see, "They ain't all bad" ! Generally, if the owner pays attention to his car and keeps up with all of the "recalls" or "letters", he will have a good time playing with this fun little car. If you just put gas in it, change the oil in it and turn the key to the right and drive, someday, it's going to bite you.

Again, sorry about your problem and maybe you should go buy some other kind of car, "that wll not be as trouble free as a Miata".

Bruce RED '91

Yes, we all hate having to do this sort of thing. But bear in mind, this is your hard-earned money and it's worth the good fight in the end.

This is almost 20 years ago, but I had a new '86 Firebird with a bad crankshaft -- it came from the factory like that. Tried several times to get the problem corrected with GM, but in the end it went to arbitration via the BBB and I was awarded a buy-back. The entire process took ELEVEN MONTHS, so be patient, don't loose your cool whatever you do.

Every manufacturer has it's own dispute resolution process, so arbitration with the BBB might not be an option for you. Anyway, it looks like you're on the right track having started a dialog with Mazda. Keep us posted -- would really like to hear how it goes.

And good luck!

{snip}

I've also had good experience with Mazda service in the past. I was happy enough with my 92 Miata that I bought a 99 Miata.

I don't think it's very ethical to allow a known manufacturing defect to destroy a customers car though. I further don't think it's reasonable that I had to learn about the defect through my own research. I don't expect that from a company I've given at least $40K to.

If Mazda takes responsibility for the manufacturing defect and their failure to notify me of it then I probably would buy from them again because I love the Miata. Otherwise I can't in good conscience reward them with another purchase.

This is not to say that you shouldn't. If your experiences have been as good as mine have been before this incident please continue to buy Mazdas. However if you have an engine destroyed in 41K miles from a manufacturing defect that they've been aware of since the year you bought the car, I think it would be foolish of you to continue to support them.

I disagree with you here. I bought a car, not a hobby. I expect to do no more than the recommended maintenance and to keep up with normal wear and tear. I don't expect to have to be an expert in Mazda maintenance. That's why I bring it to the dealer. I expect them to tell me when the timing belt needs to be changed, when to inspect the cooling system and I expect them to tell me about issues, such as manufacturing defects that may affect life or value of my car.

I don't think an adversarial relationship where they keep important maintenance information to themselves and it's up to me to discover it on my own is reasonable.

Come on. There are other manufacturers with similar reliability ratings.

Thanks. Hopefully I won't be facing such a protracted procedure. This Miata is my only car and the public transportation system where I live is not so good.

According to Mazda I should hear something from them Monday or Tuesday. I will post an update when I do.

There is no "we"; nobody owns this group. It is just as on-topic for Dave to discuss his bad experiences as it is for you to relate your good ones. :)

Personally, I can understand Dave being somewhat unhappy with having an engine destroyed after 41 kmi due to a manufacturing error by Mazda and no longer being under warranty. While Mazda is under no legal obligation any more, I hope they work out a deal anyway.

As far as buying any new Mazdas, I would certainly *not* recommend buying any Mazdas from that dealership. Based on Dave's tale, I would rate both their competency and business integrity at zero.

There was a time that some in this group seriously considered starting a list of bad Mazda dealers by listing them by name. I have no doubt that any such list would only end up giving a black eye to many perfectly reasonable dealers and be used by some unscrupulous people to put undue pressure on honest dealers, but stories like Dave's do make you think.

Leon

You are correct Leon in all that you posted.

I (me) do not understand why Dave keeps posting that if things don't change with "his" problem with Mazda, he will not buy another car from Mazda. I (me) think that, that is a personal problem that this "disscussion group" can't help him with. Dave (I think), wanted some help with an answer to his car problem and it looks like others that read and respond to this site have headed him off in that direction. The fact that Dave is upset with how he has been treated by "A" or "some" dealers and he would not buy one of their cars again, is his deal and not one for this site to hear, over and over again. SO, I say, don't buy one then ! :)

Like I said, "not to throw gas on thr fire", but.......... Even if Dave finds a "cure" I think his feelings for Mazda are more than broken and that will be very hard to mend, no mater what the outcome is.

I guess I don't see a car as a "hobby" as Dave calls it. But at $25,000 or so it is an investment that should be taken care of. (Unless you have so much money that "taking care", is is not in the vocabulary.)

Sorry to "rant", but I, (me) have always kept up on the "recalls" and or "service letters" that deal investment of my cars. YES, the dealer should have told him ! But, yes, he should have asked if there were any "recalls" or "service letters", not to wait to see the "smoke" and wonder what is going on !

OK, I'm all done now :)

Bruce RED '91

I'm not sure you understand what a personal problem is. My problem is that I bought a new 99 Miata with a manufaturing defect that was known about since 99 and was not told about it. That's not a personal problem.

My anticipated reaction in the case that I have to pay for the manufacturing defect is not a problem, personal or otherwise.

Yes, by following their published maintenance guidelines and taking any advice offered by their service department.

That's great. Obviously I'd be better off today had I done so as well. But it doesn't say much about their customer service if you HAD to do that would it?

I don't want to spend my time learning about the Miata. I take it to the experts and I trust them to do the right thing. If the Miata is strictly a hobbyists car, then it's not the car for me.

As I said, the second dealer, who I brought the service bulletin to, said that this bulletin was not available to them. They don't have it and they can't get it.

So, what good would it do to ask?

Ok, so what's your issue? You think the dealer should have told me, I think the dealer should have told me, we agree.

Is your only problem that you find this thread to be unworthy of your time? Is that a personal problem?

We're still interested to hear how it turns out. Perhaps you're viewing this backwards. Now it's Dave helping us by relating the process used to try to get compensetaiton from Mazda..

I think people should stop giving Dave shit for this thread. It's not like he's flamebaiting people here.

Please don't turn this group into rec.autos.makers.chrysler, which is a cesspool of losers. His subject matter is on-topic and he's being nicer than I probably would be.

-=fptm

It's not been a problem. I've acknowledged almost every response with a reply. If you're not reading the thread carefully it might appear that I'm popping on here every few hours just to bitch anew at Mazda.

I'll let you guys know what happens next.

Please do, Dave. I am reading with great interest and I wish you all the best in getting this resolved :) ~Cissy "Don't be so open-minded your brains fall out of your sock drawer" ?? :-D

Dave I read this whole topic, and there really isn't enough information here to help with your engine.

I will as a mechanic with lots of experience working on all sorts of different cars give you some tips. I will also gladly talk to any of the dealers for you if you would like, since I understand autos better, there is no way they can pull the wool over my eyes.

That said, your car dying when the clutch is depressed probably has zilch to do with engine wear. This is usually and idle problem in the idle air bypass valve, throttle position sensor or something along those lines. An engine can be worn out to the point of making no where near the original power, and this will not be a problem.

I don't have a copy of the TSB in hand that you speak of, but I have heard of it. IIRC, it was for valvetrain noise in the '99 Miata engine, the first year for the new 1.8L cylinder head. Valvetrain components and labor cost no where near the $3300 you were quoted. A reputable non dealer mechanic could replace the entire cylinder head including all valve train components for far less, and they too warranty their work for the better shops.

Your engine very well may have excessive crankshaft thrust end play. If the tech actually measured this for an idle dip and stall when clutch depressed problem, I would be shocked. This is about the last thing one would check. Main engine bearings can be replaced as well restoring thrust specifications to normal quite easily.

I have never, ever, ever heard of an OEM engine that was worn out at 41K miles if it were well maintained. You said you get the oil changed frequently, which means this is very highly improbable.

And another thing.... if they are so certain your engine is just flat worn out and needs replacing, do they have any compression test numbers, leak down test numbers, and do they have oil pressure numbers as well? If they don't have this data, then they made a very improper and hasty diagnosis.

Does your Miata burn oil? Does it smoke especially on startup? Worn engines consume oil at noticeable rates.

You definitely need to find a reputable independent mechanic familiar with Mazda engines. Find one before you take another car to any other dealer. Find a friend that has knowledge of cars to go with you. Also have the mechanic show and explain to you what the problem happens to be. If they cannot explain it so that you understand it, and show you what is wrong via a documented test (compression, leak down, oil pressure, crankshaft end play measurement, etc.), then there is absolutely no reason to believe them.

This thread is the very reason I am so happy that I can do all mechanical work myself. I personally feel many in the automotive repair industry simply lack ability and honesty both.

AnthonyS

Anthony,

Please read

Leon

Hay Dave, I said I was done. :)

Bruce RED '91 (Didn't mean to upset you)