bloke didn't buy the Celsior, so I'm considering a chop in.

However, it's a very out-dated platform these days, coming from the days of Vx building terminal under-steer and lots of torque-steer into their cars as standard.

My opinion is that a Xantia or 406 would be much more pleasant to drive on the occasions Elder isn't on the motorway.

Both will more than likely offer much better ride quality than the Saab, too. Especially the Xantia, which, in my experience of them, are just about the smoothest riding car in the class.

I used to like Saabs, before they got bought by GM - but the GM900 and

Type 4 cars are reputedly much better - but they never came with a diesel option - the 9-5 is / was also based on the 1988 Chavalier.

The 306 is a great machine!

Yup. I always wanted a mark one 306 TD but never bought one.

There is possibly the option of looking for a decent 9000. But it would need to be either an Aero (higher geared better economy in real life than normal turbos), or a very late anniversary spec model (same car, standard seats, different body kit). But they are getting rarer now as people are either killing them on track days, or keeping them.

Nah don't kid yourself; sure the Aero has better real world economy than the rest of the range, but from the Norwich fleet, you're looking at 31 mpg rather than 30 mpg. On a run. With Captain Slow me driving it.

Might see if he will give me anything at all off it for the Celsior. For what I will save in fuel, it is worth a punt. Sure it will be tractor like, but it won't cost a mortgage payment each month to fuel, and do just about all I need except be an auto.

I have found Saabs to have much more expensive problems than Xantias much more often. I like Saabs, even if they're based on a long wheelbase and quite seriously altered /Vectra/ floorpan, the 9-5 can be a lovely thing if you get a nice one. 9-3s aren't as lovely. Xantia suspension is dead cheap and easy to sort as well, what else can you get springs and shocks fitted for £25 a corner on?

Personally I'd get the Xantia, but I'd probably get one of the old TD ones instead of a HDi. HDi engines don't seem all that wonderful to me, tend to feel flat and gutless - especially the 90.

Just because the HDi is newer doesn't mean it's as sensible to own. The old TD lump is pretty bloody bombproof apart from a tendency to munch the head at 200k if not maintained properly. The HDi appears to be a lot more problematic.

Of course, this is Carl and he's unlikely to buy something sensible despite telling us repeatedly that's what he wants.

It is, unfortunately the reputation of Citroen's suspension is that it's very expensive to fix.

That makes it a perfect used buy. :)

I loved our Xantia VSX TD on the fleet. It was comfortable, well specified, quiet and very smooth.

It's also more clinical to drive. Actually that's true of almost all new fangled ECU-operated turbodiesels.

There's something wonderful and analogue-esque about the XUDT, the HDI is on paper a superior engine, but doesn't have the same... character... on the road.

Meh. Saabs can have expensive problems, absolutely. I agree with Carl inasmuch as they're unsensible but sensible at the same time. Weird. Naturally I'm biased because I came to the same conclusion about 18 months ago then went out and bought one.

I'm holding back the urge to blow big on a Bighorn/Lucida/Pajero/Jeep, and by those standards, a Saab is very sensible. I could spend less on something or more on something else, but I tend to get along with how Saab lay things out, even with with the GM influences.

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Elder, managed to produce the following words of wisdom

Troo, but knowing your luck...

I've got a T plate Ford Cougar V6 you might like.... only seems to be averaging 29 mpg, but it's the only tidy one you'll find for under £2k :-)

I drive captain slow style too. Or rather I drive steadily quick, and plan ahead.

On the route to/from the old office, I regularly was going along as the same time as my boss.

The road had recently been downgraded from 40 to 30, he still drove it at 40 as there were no cameras and never a mobile unit arround. I drove it at 30.

He would blast off into the distance and brake/accelerate harder. I would smoothly reach the speed limit, picking lane changes and slowing for lights to make green rather than having to stop.

He would, after 5 miles arrive at best, 1 car ahead of me at the final set of light. I really annoyed him.

My GT4 was like a go-cart after I played with it, but didn't appreciate it until I had bought the replacement.

If I don't get that one, it will be something similar.

cougar's are s**te!

Don't. Of all the modern ish (last generation types) I like the cougar=20 the most.

No, I won't. You can't make me.

--=20 Carl Robson Audio stream:

Isn't that the one which lunched it's engines with alarming regularity?

- something to do with top end oil starvation due to a dodgy oil pump design?

Not as far as I care...

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Vamp, managed to produce the following words of wisdom

Google for Cougars and Nikasil....

Nothing but the sticker should read: "Engineered in Japan, build by robots and a few frogs in France, profits going untaxed back to Japan".

Why not Derby or Deeside?

Because the UK gouvernement didn't want to subsidise as much as the French did. Belgium had its piece of the cake: Toyota HQ for the plant in Valenciennes is in Brussels (Evere).

The reason is the same: mayor tax rebates, investement funding, subsidise. Of course Brussels is a lot cheaper as Paris, has its international status, Valenciennes has only youth who torch your car at night.

Tom De Moor

Yeah... does this reply come from somebody who was all hung ho about Carls' Rangie?

:-)

My advice -as been given and shot at before- to Carl: buy a small van, Berlingo style. Headroom is no problem, cheap as chips on parts and fuel, runable on veg-oil.

When funds permit: go for the very unsensible things on wheels!

Tom De Moor

I might have to agree with you there: