Oooh, RX8s are getting cheaper.

Both an RX7 and an RX8. I thought they were both horrible. The engine has to be screaming before it has any oomph.

Sounds more like a description of you! The RX8 is fun to drive but the engine is not a great design. It costs a lot to keep running.

That's a shit reason.

I've owned a Jag V12 and a 13B rotary and they were both a bit poo. The Jag was unreliable and heavy and the rotary was thirsty and had bugger all torque. Either would be easily beaten in power/fuel consumption by a small block chev or a jap turbo four/six.

Fraser

Bollocks, only happens if you don't maintain it properly.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. The Jag reputation for unreliability is a huge conspiracy and my experience confirming it was a statistical anomaly.

Fraser

No. The "problem" with Jag V12s is well know. They are difficult and expensive to maintain. It's one of the few engines ever made which requires partial disassembly of the aircon in order to change spark plug #1 for example. You don't mention if the engine was in an Australian or a UK car. I suspect the former. So I also suspect that it had never been serviced properly since it was at the end of a long supplyu chain with few knowledgeable Jaguar mechanics available.

Your knowledge of cars and engines always seems to be based on either some American lump, in which case it can do no wrong - presumably these enginees are simple enough for you to understand - or if it's British/German you claim it's "unreliable" based either on scuttlebut or single examples. Oh and that enormous dollop of mindless prejudice you carry around with you.

However if a Jag V12 or straight six is properly maintained they are excellent engines. But you stick to antique pushrod lumps, and your antique opinions, eh?

Actually I am driving a twin turbo injected 16 valve 2 litre flat four at the moment. Fail. And I have owned and worked on some of the most advanced stuff on the planet including Nissan GTRs. So as far as being into antique pushrod lumps you couldn't be futher from the truth. My last 5 cars were Liberty B4, WRX, WRX, GTR Skyline and GTS-t Skyline.

Jags are shit. Always have been known for being lemons and for good reason. Mine was looked after by one of the best Jag workshops in the country and it was still a complete piece of shit.

Fraser

You really should try some of the modern ones. The alloy XJ is a world apart from the old XJ40 crock.

I imagine the Ford ones are fairly decent. At least as good as Mondeos. But the British Leyland days they produced absolute s**te.

Fraser

"Fraser Johnston" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

No, the XJ40 was the low point - and that was post-BL.

Many thanks once more for yet another worthless opinion.

One thing Aussies value most in a vehicle is reliability. You really don't want your car to fuckup when you're out of town. There's a real darwinian survival of the fittest type thing going on over there when it comes to cars. As soon as a brand develops a reputation for unreliability, they stop buying them and the mud sticks, then gets baked on permanently in the searing heat. Think of the old story of Land Rovers being almost 100% replaced by Land Cruisers.

They are also less affected by brand snobbery. This is probably helped by the sheer expense of buying a luxury European car over there, because of the luxury tax of 50% of any imported car over about =A325,000. To us that wouldn't really buy a luxury car (maybe a pov spec

5 series) but it, coupled by the fact that you don't see anything like the depreciation we're used to means that a ten year old Ferrari costs more in Australia than a brand new one does here in the UK. Why would anyone in a nation with that set of values and buying criteria spend a not inconsiderate sum of money on a car, such as a jag, that has a poor reliability record?

It's funny how loyal some Aussies can be to "their" brand (Ford or Holden). I once got into a conversation about cars with a bloke who was a bit of an oaf. He asked me what's my favourite car manufacturer. I had to think for a while but eventually came up with Porsche, which confused him. I asked him the same question. "Ford" was the answer. I asked why (because to answer him I'd weighed up lots of criteria) he said "my dad was a Ford man, my granddad was a Ford man, my great granddad was a Ford man" to which I replied "so nothing to do with any merit or engineering excellence on the part of Ford then?"

I've worked on the Aussie built Fords and Holdens and they are old fashioned bits of kit, even relatively recent stuff is live axle/leaf springs on the estate model but it's tried and trusted stuff and a bit over engineered (as in just add metal) with huge, understressed engines (entry level Falcon is a 4.0 I6 with about 2 bhp but 1000000 torques and 1100 rpm at 70mph). For years that's kept the locals happy with dependability and mile munching qualities fit for a 2000 mile commute and a vast model range from pov spec to long wheelbase and electric/leather everything with high performance tyre smokers in between. The new stuff (what the VXR8 is based on and the new Falcon) I think are completely unrecognisable underneath from what I've heard, which would explain why the latest HSV Maloo ute lapped the TG track quicker than a DB9. Which is kind of a victory for Holden over Ford, isn't it?

That's a bit rich coming from someone who turns into the playground bully if anyone questions his opinion.

He thinks exploders are the best thing since sliced bread and Jags are reliable. I'm cross posting this to aus.cars so other people can laugh at him.

Fraser

Nice comeback. Good to see you are using loads of data to support your position.

Fraser

One thing Aussies value most in a vehicle is reliability. You really don't want your car to fuckup when you're out of town. There's a real darwinian survival of the fittest type thing going on over there when it comes to cars. As soon as a brand develops a reputation for unreliability, they stop buying them and the mud sticks, then gets baked on permanently in the searing heat. Think of the old story of Land Rovers being almost 100% replaced by Land Cruisers.

They are also less affected by brand snobbery. This is probably helped by the sheer expense of buying a luxury European car over there, because of the luxury tax of 50% of any imported car over about £25,000. To us that wouldn't really buy a luxury car (maybe a pov spec

5 series) but it, coupled by the fact that you don't see anything like the depreciation we're used to means that a ten year old Ferrari costs more in Australia than a brand new one does here in the UK. Why would anyone in a nation with that set of values and buying criteria spend a not inconsiderate sum of money on a car, such as a jag, that has a poor reliability record?

It's funny how loyal some Aussies can be to "their" brand (Ford or Holden). I once got into a conversation about cars with a bloke who was a bit of an oaf. He asked me what's my favourite car manufacturer. I had to think for a while but eventually came up with Porsche, which confused him. I asked him the same question. "Ford" was the answer. I asked why (because to answer him I'd weighed up lots of criteria) he said "my dad was a Ford man, my granddad was a Ford man, my great granddad was a Ford man" to which I replied "so nothing to do with any merit or engineering excellence on the part of Ford then?"

I've worked on the Aussie built Fords and Holdens and they are old fashioned bits of kit, even relatively recent stuff is live axle/leaf springs on the estate model but it's tried and trusted stuff and a bit over engineered (as in just add metal) with huge, understressed engines (entry level Falcon is a 4.0 I6 with about 2 bhp but 1000000 torques and 1100 rpm at 70mph). For years that's kept the locals happy with dependability and mile munching qualities fit for a 2000 mile commute and a vast model range from pov spec to long wheelbase and electric/leather everything with high performance tyre smokers in between. The new stuff (what the VXR8 is based on and the new Falcon) I think are completely unrecognisable underneath from what I've heard, which would explain why the latest HSV Maloo ute lapped the TG track quicker than a DB9. Which is kind of a victory for Holden over Ford, isn't it?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I think most Holdens and Fords are complete bags of shit. They use dinosaur technology that is one step behind their american parent companies which isn't saying much at all.

Fraser

"Jags are shit"

That was a data-rich comment eh?

FWIW, *my* mechanic replaces more Subaru engines that Jag engines. He says "Subaru are shit". The Jag V12 that you have a worthless opinion of of has been extremely reliable, even when tuned to 750bhp. We have this funny little race in Europe run over 24 hours at Le Mans. It used to be dominated by cars with that engine.

"Unreliable" my arse. Perhaps you need to learn how to drive?

A very small percentage of vehicle failures are engine failure though. I'm sure Fraser isn't complaining about it throwing a rod every time he drove it, although in an Australian summer I'd expect there migh've been some overheating issues in that cramped engine bay. Jag built a badly packaged, poorly constructed pile of s**te around a magnificent motor.