Rover 600s

White one up for £1500 ATM no reserve.

and yes, ex-busy.

Bad memories of the 70s and 80s. Plus numpty owners.

They need looking after, granted. But this isn't expensive. What _is_ expensive is not keeping your eye on oil levels, changing the oil regularly or missing services. If you do that they become an expensive time-bomb. But cheap, regular maintenance (outside of the dealer network) will prevent all the expensive problems occuring.

Not driven a Ti, but I have driven a couple of 600s - 620 and 623, ISTR. All I can say is that they were dull and under-steery. This can only get worse with 200-odd bhp at the front wheels.

No. That's not character. Character is an engine note that makes you turn off the stereo, handling that makes you grin every time you take it out and styling that makes you look back at the car every time you get out of it.

Not noticed that happen to me. Considering a drive a big white Alfa with NI plates at a not inconsiderable pace, I've had a remarkable lack of plod attention.

Who said anything about spoilers? - I like my cars without stick-on tat. In fact (since the Escort) I've not had anything that doesn't look like a standard factory car.

What's happened to all the early ones, then? - I see lots more early E34s than I do early 600s.

You just have to pick carefully when buying an E34. There's lots of council-estate dogs out there - but there's also an equal number of cars owned by Beemer enthusiasts who haven't felt the need to replace their E34. After all, it's probably the last of the proper BMWs.

Better styling, better handling, better engine, better spec, nicer interior.....

The target market being straight-line speed merchants, I take it?

Similar era of car - and I'm sure PeteM will agree that Alfa have an undeserved bad reputation when it comes to electrical hassles.

Because it seems that people have forgotten all about handling and just concentrate on straight-line performance these days.

Which explains why the VAG groups offerings sell so well.

See Above ;-)

Heh..... I _really_ should have brought up the 900 T16 as an alternative to the 600Ti.....

One of the few cars I'd consider swapping an Alfa for, IYSWIM.

That'll be my Saab then. :)

All moot points, save the styling issue, 'cos styling is a personal thing.

Actually, using the above, Kermit has character in abundance.

Aie, quite right; but every 156 V6 I've seen has had that hoopy rear spoiler jobbie thing.

I see _plenty_ of Ls in York and Yorkshire, shed loads of Ms and Ns, indeed I see far fewer later ones!

Okay. Good point. Except one flaw - those people who are keeping on to them . . . are keeping on to them . . . and if they decide to sell they're bleedin' expensive!

Heh. By this token, are modern Alfa Romeos really Alfa Romeos?

Styling depends on the person buying and driving it, though.

Engine? Moot point. There's something _wonderful_ about _both_ the heave of the 2.0 turbo in the 620 Ti as well as the sonorous thunder of an Alfa V6. Ti is reputed to be more economical in the real world.

Specification? More to go wrong.

As for the interior, well again this is down to personal taste. I like the

600's interior, but I can't get comfortable. I've never been able to get comfortable in any Alfa Romeo. :(

Yup.

As has the Rover for mechanical problems!

Some people, not all, heh.

One of the reasons. Although . . . I did kinda . . . like the 150 diesel VW I tried the other day . . . but they're about nineteen grand!

Yes.

All cars need looking after, but some cope with no servicing and basic oil changes for thousands of miles, and some just die off. Regrettably, Alfa Romeo are more in the latter camp.

Herein is the Alfa weakness, but I'll detail my thoughts on this later on.

This being true of most cars, except it

Rightio.

Nope! You should try one, they're great fun*.

The 620ti has by far the best suspension set up of the lot, by far. The ride is a little bit firmer than the others (the 623i has the worst compromise, it manages to both wallow in the handling department but deliver a stiff ride, heh), but the handling is _far_ superior. They're a lot better than the standard fare. Best of all, they do this with so little compromise to the handling!

*fun in a turbocharged four banger way, since although they don't sound bad, you do need more cylinders for the full on experience, but the heave more than makes up for the lack of cylinder five and / or six.

The "great" Alfa weakness is that they need what is considered (wrongfully!) "specialist care and attention." This is, of course, complete nonsense. Every car driver should check their car's fluid levels at least every week. The trouble for Alfa Romeo is that the cast majority of other mass produced cars these days simply don't use their fluids. Yes, I know some do - but even an oil-burning diesel 2.0 Vauxhall uses enough oil to be spotted after a thousand miles, rather than burns a sump in five hundred miles! :( Perhaps they need better "driver idiot" lights to warn the driver to check the engine oil? But whatever the reason behind it, the most advanced, powerful, aurally satisfying engine (and Alfa Romeo twin sparks make a lovely noise) is only going to be as good as the driver or keeper who can be bothered to check on it.

I did a poll in late November at the office here - I asked people to fill in a form showing when they had last checked their car's fluid levels and tyre pressures. 32% of replies were, "I don't, it gets serviced every year." Most people ticked the "occasionally" box and a few ticked the "what does that mean?"

/this same survey demonstrated that almost 60% of people in my office don't know which wheels are driven/

:-(

"Lordy" wrote;

Heehee, Mr Terence F Witt would you please move your rusting Alfa from the front of our building...

Steve.

"Lordy" wrote

Italian cars and women look so good to start with... but its such a shame what age does to them...

Steve.

No, they're not.

Last proper range of Alfas were the 33/ 75/ 164.

MMMMMMMMMMM SAAB aero's are fudging nice and a 850 T5 *drools homer style*

LMAO i'd love to f*ck about in a RWD tank :)

In article , snipped-for-privacy@italiancar.co.uk spouted forth into uk.rec.cars.modifications...

I know the 600 makes a little more power, and probably has some more impressive performance figures.

I know my Saab is showing signs of wear in the suspension dept (going to get looked at with a wheel bearing at the same time), and I usually get to see it close up, but coming out of a supermarket, walking across the car park, I still get the "Wow, that looks so impressive" thoughts going through my head.

And Winding down the windows to hear the turbo whistle as it spins up is fantastic.

On the motorway it wanders a bit, but that could be down to the wear and tear to the suspension, but get it round some twisties, and while it rolls a little, it hangs on well, and is pretty chuckable for such a large car.

In both cases, you need to keep current, and move onto a younger model before the rot sets in (literally) :)

Hehe :)

You're right, it's *two* good arguments.

Those are two perfectly good factors that can influence people's choices in car purchasing. The majority of people want to drive as new a car as possible, and a lot of people don't want the stigmata of driving a BMW.

Not imo.

It's not something that's "made up" for if you want the speed tho :)

Is fine.

Key words being "in comparison". Just because one car may handle better than another does not mean that the second car is bad handling.

Not the one my dad used to bring home from work in the late 90's. It had only been there a few weeks old when the (stupidly shaped) handbrake lever fell off (How the fk the handbrake lever can just fall off is beyond me and, I guess, pretty much says it all about the build quality). It was constantly plagued by problems thereafter, spent loads of time at the dealer, but the person from work who actually bought the car after it's term was up was an 'alfa nut' as well so rose above such little 'foibles' as reliability.

See above.

That was just a wildcard :)

Plus it's cheap. Plus it's extremely comfortable (being kitted out with leather and top notch Recaro seats). Plus it's got plenty of toys.

It's important to me - dunno what it's like where you live, but I definetely spend more time driving in a straight line than anything else, and it's not failed to go round any corners yet.

Could be something to do with the fact there *are* lots more of those than there are 600s :)

There were only 270,000 Rover 600s produced worldwide during it's 7 year life span...

No, most people are not so overly concerned with Marque and 'heritage' that they are willing to overlook the roughness of the rest of the package.

How did we get from 164 to 156 ?

The 164 is the great big barge thing that's about twice as big as a Rover 600 (so I'll mighty impressed if it does have anything approaching the kind of handling that's being discussed).