Mustang Sales, Specialty Models

DC won't be rebranding anything. D will split from C. (There's no way this won't happen.) And it'll be some investor(s) new Dodge Challenger.

Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L
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Ya know what, let me know when you're going to stop making stuff and assigning it to me and we can discuss things, until then forget it. I stated nothing of the sort and you damn well know it.

Reply to
Brent P

Mike, Brent's point it that the early Tempest had a very strong resemblence to the rest of the Pontiac line. (Just like the new GTO does.) And in the old Pontiac line-up they were quite boring looking compared to the up-market and more stylish Catalina and Grand Prix. Only its compact size, no-frills looks, the advance of time, and the biggest factor of all the high-performance image does the body thrill us now with its "classic look".

But were they any more stylish [back then] compared to a Chevelle, Chevy II, Fairlane, Galaxie, etc.? My answer is no. In that crowd, they were boring looking... just a plain-Jane, blend-in-with-the-pack sedan, even in GTO trim.

So how is the new GTO any different? It looks very much like any other late-model Pontiac with the only difference being its high- performance image.

Lastly, compare the looks of a new GTO to a '70 GTO. Now compare an '04 Mustang GT to '65 Mustang GT? I think the evolutionary resemblence of the early version to the latter version of both cars is quite similar, don't you?

Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L

Whether the car is boring is a matter of opinion. I don't believe Pontiac designed the Tempest to be boring. The GTO was targeted to be an affordable muscle car. It delivered this in spades and hit the marketing bullseye. In its day the GTO was stylish and appealed to a large number of people just like the Tempest did. If the body thrills us now then why wouldn't it thrill someone in the 1960s? Cars don't get better looking with age.

Brent seems to think the last GTO was in line with the first GTO. I disagree. The first GTO was taken from a base model vehicle that sold in large volume. This allowed Pontiac to keep it affordable and profitable. The Holden GTO was far from this. If Pontiac had followed the same formula then the last GTO would have been based off a Grand Prix or maybe even a G6. That wasn't in the cards because of these cars having FWD. At least they had enough sense to keep the GTO RWD.

Since GM decided to import a left hand drive car in low volumes and convert it to right hand drive it was no longer affordable. They also didn't bother to determine if their target market would respond well to a GTO based on an import. Why did GM kill off the GTO after two years? It didn't sell because most people didn't care for the styling and/or price. I bet GM took a bath on the last few GTO that were sold. Bringing one to the showroom was a complicated and expensive process. Does this sound like the formula used for the original car? It doesn't to me.

Style is a matter of taste. They sold well so style had to be a part of the car's appeal to the public. The cars you mentioned were no better than a Tempest or GTO, IMO. They all had about the same style quotient.

Did a Chevelle SS look that much different than a garden variety Chevelle? Maybe a few badges, wider tires etc. Sounds like the formula for a GTO to me. It also seems that the muscles cars of the 1960s were based on higher volume base models like the Nova, Chevelle, etc. The last GTO was far from this formula.

Are you saying they look alike or not? I'm not sure what your point is. The last GTO has no resemblance to any earlier model and it shouldn't. It's an import. Like I said, Brent seems to think the last GTO was in line with the first. I disagree.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

I wonder who will buy Chrysler? I don't see Ford or GM doing it. Toyota doesn't need it and most other companies would be crazy to take that leap. I guess if Daimler lets it go cheap enough someone will step up.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

Let me quote you from earlier in this thread:

"It was the expectations people had of the name, the car was true to the early version of the GTO."

Reply to
Michael Johnson

A shared theme of being based on a regular sedan without any significant styling differences.

Having killed their domestic RWD lines, they used a bread and butter RWD line from overseas.

You're drawing up details that don't matter to make it different.

In the end of the day it's a family sedan with a special package, and really the only RWD one GM had world wide to choose from. Maybe if GM hadn't killed off RWD cars in the 80s and then those that survived in the

90s they could have had a more effective GTO, but that's neither here nor there when it comes to basing the GTO on an ordinary family sedan.
Reply to
Brent P

Which is about three universes away from what you assigned to me above.

Of course there are major differences... It's been 40 years!

Reply to
Brent P

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote in news:2padncbHHIfwfm3YnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

Michael is right on the money IMO. The point I'd like to make here is that the latest GTO shares nothing with the rest of GM's American offerings, as opposed to the earlier GTO which was derived from the Tempest. Different things entirely.

Reply to
Joe

"Michael Johnson, PE" wrote in news:bMGdnfvLOuNwVG3YnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

There are a few running around on the roads down here. Seeing them with other cars, they don't look too inspiring at all. In fact, the Hertz Mustangs look a lot better.

Reply to
Joe

Michael Johnson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

Here's today's latest:

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Reply to
Joe

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:45:44 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Brent P) puked:

My point is they badged the Plymouth Neon a Dodge Neon after Plymouth's demise...

-- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

Reply to
lab~rat >:-)

It's still based off a regular sedan... just one not sold in US, but one that is more like a traditional US sedan than anything that divison has put out since the mid 80s.

Reply to
Brent P

No, Neons were sold by both divisons long before that.

Reply to
Brent P

It isn't based on a regular sedan. It is based on an Australian import that isn't even left hand drive. Also, the GTO is base on one of Holden's luxury models and not a base sedan.

.... and this is like the original GTO?

I'm drawing up details that dispute your claims. The last GTO is far from the first GTO in concept.

I guess we can both agree that the last GTO was ill conceived and executed. The first one was brilliantly conceived and executed. What was different between them that made this possible?

Reply to
Michael Johnson

I'm assigning you your own words. So now we have you saying it was true to the original and then saying there were major differences. Which is it?

Reply to
Michael Johnson

I think if it goes with private investors it will either be a disaster or brilliant move. There will be no middle ground. Private investors might break from the old way of doing things that don't work anymore. Then again, they may not know what they are doing and run the whole mess right of a cliff. :)

Reply to
Michael Johnson

I still think they should want more on the roads and in people's hands. It is like them having a roving billboard to boost their performance image. Plus, they are going back on their word if they don't turn up the wick on GT500 production. That really chaps my ass.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

There is no lower RWD passenger sedan in world wide GM production. What exactly should they have used?

This hang up on it's original driver's side configuration is nonsense. Platforms have had cars with either side available for decades.

All you are pointing out is that it's not 1964 anymore and 20 years post GM adbandoning RWD for anything under a caddy in the US.

Reply to
Brent P

It's been forty years. If you could get that carburated no seat belts tempest to pass current regs without major changes you'd be a miracle worker and should be an engineer for GM.

Today's mustang has major differences from the ones that rolled out in '64... there's not even a compact to base it on any more. But it's the same theme right? Where's the falcon ? Shouldn't the mustang be based on an ordinary bread and butter compact under the skin?

All that can be held on to is the general themes. The GTO held to one it had, it wasn't the one people expected though.

Reply to
Brent P

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