tips for oil change on late model `03 4.6....? reducing dry start?

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here but... if you kill the ignition and crank the engine to get your oil flowing before you actually fire it up how is that better than just starting the engine? You're still moving all those metal parts against other metal parts whether the engine is running or cranking. As far as I know the only way to accomplish the pre-lube you want is a drill and shaft in the oil pump or a pressure tank piped into your oil system that you could open before every start.

I am a big believer in filling the filter up at changes. I've always filled the filter all the way even on horizontally mounted applications. As long as I can do it in one fast & fluid motion I can usually get the filter on the threads and sping before too much oil (as in several drops give or take) leaks out.

bill

64.5: 260, 3 sp, a/c, SVO cam, Performer, Holley 390, Pertronix, Hi-Po exhaust, 1.5" front & 1" rear drop, Jacobs wires, Torq D's 66: '93 5.0, C4, a/c, ps, Performer RPM, Holley 600, Pertronix, bench seat

Colt SP1,Sig P220, Moss. 590A1, Marlin 70P

It won't hurt a thing. Don't worry over it. There is still an oil coating that will keep it lubricated. I drove my Ford for a few miles at very low speed with a broken oil pump. (I was a dumb kid then - shoulda had it towed). The garage put a new pump in and it was fine. John

I would say it is better because cranking the engine via the starter turns the engine over at a low rpm (200 or 300 or so I believe), and there is very little pressure on the moving parts. Having the engine start and run via combustion means at least 500 or 600 rpm under the pressure of combustion, pressure on parts which is way greater than when merely cranking the engine via the starter motor. However, one could argue that when cranking the engine via the starter, the rpm is too low to produce appreciable oil pressure, so... but my thought was to just crank the engine enough (as little as possible) to fill the oil filter with oil so that when you do start the engine, you don't have to wait 3 full seconds for oil pressure.

Indeed, if one warms the motor first and leaves the throttle alone at start up, once the oil is change the few seconds before pressure builds reduces engine life (on a daily driver) by a margin too small to accurately measure..... cold starts, on the other hand..... If you opt for disabling the motor (i.e. making sure it wont start), your best bet is to remove the FPM (fuel pump module) relay to reduce the possibility of washing the cylinder walls down with gasoline..... the downside being is that we now most likely have a code that needs clearing....

The noise you hear is likely cam chains or lash adjusters or a combination of the two.

-- Jim Warman snipped-for-privacy@telusplanet.net

mississippi,

In the old days, when I used to be paranoid about this sort of thing, I used to pull the coil wire, and crank the engine for five seconds (on other cars--back in the day). This got the juices flowing.

Now--that I've realized this sort of thing doesn't matter--I put oil in, and turn the key until the engine starts. Trust me, the reciprocating assembly of your engine is the absolute LAST thing that will wear out on your car in stock form. One thing American cars have down pretty well is the reciprocating assembly and its longevity, and low maintenance (Chevy V8s *excluded*). These 4.6 engines--like many American engines-- rarely cause the owner grief of broken timing belts, interference valvetrain designs. The things that wear out on cars and cause grief are junk like alternators, A/C compressors, heater cores, and junk like that.

Vic

2kGT 5m blk suspension upgrades

Add the Oil pump onto that list of parts that wear out. On Fords, the oil pump is notorious for dying. It leaves the owner w/low oil pressure and a diesel sound from the engine (cause the engine's starving for oil).

I am still paranoid, and I still pull both coil pack harnesses, apply full throttle to cut fuel delivery in half (out of respect for the cats), and crank until I get a pressure reading on the dash. I still believe that a dry start after an oil change, over the long run, is injurious.

-JD

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OK, maybe I'm dumber than I look. Please explain what the difference is between draining the oil from the pan and then refilling the oil pan and letting the car sit overnight. What internals are better lubricated in the latter case? How does the draining of the pan give a "dry(er)" start to use your term versus starting it a few hours or a day later? The only difference that I see is that in one case the oil filter is dry (new filter) and in the other case the filter is full of oil. Are you suggesting that in the time it takes to prime the pump (and I'm not certain that the pump even needs to be primed) extra wear will occur?

The oil filter is at a higher location in the engine compared to the level of oil standing in the engine. Letting it stand overnight with Fresh oil won't get any oil into the filter. It needs to be pumped into the filter. It's probably even better to start it right after the refill since there's less time for the lubricated parts in the engine to shed the oil off back into the pan. I usually just fill the filter with oil and screw it back on. Then when I start it I don't touch the throttle right away. Should be fine. Am at 91K miles and no more oil usage than when I got it. I guess it all depends on how long you want to keep the car. With normal oil changes you are safe for at least 200K I would say. You would do more damage by redlining an engine when it's not up to operating temps (which is not the water temp)

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Not at all. A great deal of the volume remains in oil passages after the engine is shut off. It is held there by an anti-drainback valve in the oil filter itself. When the engine is restarted, the engine is already primed and is at full oil pressure within just a few crankshaft revolutions, long before it fires. This keeps bearing surfaces from ever touching each other during startup.

After an oil and filter change however, the oil normally found in these passages is missing. When a new, primed filter is installed and the crankcase filled with fresh oil, the entire oiling system is still dry. Fire that engine up, and it will spin for a few seconds without any oil pressure whatsoever, until the pump primes everything again.

It is this brief period of oil starvation that I seek to avoid by priming the lubricating system prior to startup after changing the oil and filter. By disabling the ignition system and cutting fuel delivery, I can turn the engine slowly using the starter motor, in order to prime the oiling system; when oil pressure registeres on the dash guage, I reconnect the ignition system and continue normal startup. After running 30 seconds, I shut it down, allow it to settle for a few mins, then double-check the level for safety.

This is the way I was taught to do an oil change back in the 60's. It was never considered acceptable to 'dry-fire' an engine, and it's not something I will ever do to any car that I service.

-JD

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"Dry" is relative term. The engine still contains a fair bit of oil, particularly in the bearings. Unless you've run some kind of engine flush that thins the oil before draining it, there's arguably plenty of oil where it matters in a so-called "dry" engine.

Right. No oil pressure, sure. But there's oil on the bearing surfaces and oil on the cylinder walls and that oil is still doing it's job.

Engines and lubricants have changed a great deal since the '60s.

Dana

People worry way too much! The fractional time for the filter to charge and pressure return to the system isn't worth all this concern - with all the oil changes that occur if it was a problem you would be hearing about engine failures all the time.

If this really is a (mental) problem, save yourself some grief and install an auxiliary pump to pressure the system prior to starting the engine whether its after an oil change or just normal "starting". Kits are available.

No, 'dry' is not a relative term. When I say 'dry', I mean an absense of both oil and oil pressure; in its place, nothing but air. I've listened to engines started 'dry', and what I hear is rod and pushrod clatter from a serious lack of oil. Have you ever listened to a 1000-inch diesel engine fired dry, right after an oil change? I've cringed hearing a V-8 fired dry several times in the past, and what I hear are bearing surfaces slamming together in the absense of any discernable oil pressure.

You got it. ZERO OIL PRESSURE. Hook up a real pressure guage right after an oil change sometime and see it for yourself. Or, simply pretend to be some sort of expert on the matter without doing any actual research.

Oil does not 'do its job' unless it is fed into bearing surfaces under pressure. Same goes for those cylinder walls: no pressure, no oil.

And so has public apathy and ignorance when it comes to the care and feeding of internal combustion engines. Dry fire your own damn engine. I won't do it to anything I own, thank you very much!

I don't consider my engine running without oil pressure for 2-3 seconds @ 1500 rpm a 'mental problem'. Your sarcasm is duly noted. Dry fire your own damn engine; it ain't gonna' happen to mine.

-JD

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Sorry, bud, but it is a "mental problem". If it was a "real" problem they'd be a heck of a lot of ruined engines out there as a result of changing the oil. Any failure after an oil change that I have heard of, or seen, has been the result of someones mistake - i.e. loose drain plug, no drain plug, even no oil.

BUT, as I said, there are pre-charge kits available for use by those who would worry about this stuff.

I am sure it is still somehow lubricating. Granted, not as good as under pressure, and there might be MINIMAL wear.

I think you are being overly anal here. Unless you want to go for the world record of the longest lasting engine in life. The engine will outlive the rest of the car for sure. Plus, cranking the engine 'dry' without ignition it is still wearing, the same parts are moving dry, just at a slower speed.

If we were all so ignorant, engines wouldn't last as long as they last now compared to 1960. Seriously, this isn't an issue anymore. Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying

Yes, JD, it is. A motor that's been run with oil, drained, filter changed and refilled within a matter of minutes isn't anywhere near dry. Film strength, JD. Film strength.

When I say 'dry', I mean an absense of both

Which Mustang is that 1000 cu in disel in?

I think you're interpreting the sound of empty hydraulic lifters as the sound of bearing surfaces slamming together. Bearing surfaces don't "slam" together until they're severely out of tolerance (rod knock). Empty hydraulic lifters, by the way, are still lubricated for some time, they just don't maintain proper lash until refilled.

Hang on one. You're getting out of line, pal. What's your research to counter well-known principals of oil film strength and the electrical affinity of oil bases and moly additives for metal? In other words, you can drain the oil out of an engine but oil remains, for a fairly long time, on the bearing surfaces regardless of the oil pressure.

I'm not pretending to be an expert, and I've done my own actual research in a number of cars. You're certainly presenting yourself as an expert, so let's see your resarch. Show me one piece of non-anecdotal evidence that so-called "dry starts" damage engines. All I have to show are a half-million miles without oil trouble in spite of "dry starts" after oil changes.

This is where you're grossly mistaken. Oil lubricates regardless of pressure. That's why you can turn an engine over by hand without spark plugs, even when you're compressing valve springs. It's due to something called "film strength". If you're using a modern oil, especially a synthetic like I do in all my vehicles, oil remains on bearing surfaces a long time after the pan is drained.

Now you're way out of line. Are you accusing me of ignorance and apathy in your dramatic outburst?

Never mind. Let's just be friends and I won't change your oil and you won't call me igorant. We'll just say we disagree on this topic and talk about Mustangs and you'll save your sermons for others and I won't interfere when you try to convert others to your faith. Afterall, it probably doesn't damage anything to partially pre-fill an oil filter in any case (though I'm curious how you deal with anti-drainback valves when prefilling a filter).

Dana

So, you think the bearings are just as dry after draining the oil as they would be if you removed them, wiped them off with a shop rag, and put them back in? That's absurd. As was stated previously, the bearing surfaces retain their oil film long after the oil is drained from the oil pan. Pre-fill the oil filter and don't worry about it. The bearing surfaces are most definitely not dry. Henry