Is it very difficult to do something like weld on subframe connectors by yourself? Can I just go to Home Depot and get some acetalyne torches and stuff? Any web links that show how to do welding safely? (The closest good shop is too far away from me and I can't take a whole day off work just to have them work on my car. I also read that bolt-on connectors are not as good.) Thanks RW
Welding is not rocket science. However, it's also not something you can just learn on the spot after reading an Internet FAQ without a bit of practice and there are a number of safety issues. If you've never welded before and don't intend to do so again in the future, it's probably not worth the hassle. Also, it's probably safer to arc weld rather than use an acetylene torch. However, it's still quite possible to either electrocute yourself and/or damage your car.
Bottom line? My suggestion would be to pay someone who knows what they're doing to weld the connectors for you.
Cheers,
Safety while welding is pretty easy. Making good welds without damaging your car or the subframe connectors and ones that will actually hold up is another. I bought the baby mig welder that home depot carries some time ago and practiced welding on exhaust pipes when needed to replace a part or just patch on the beater car. I can make solid but ugly welds at best. I still wouldn't trust my skills welding in sub frame connectors on my mustang.
That's why I still don't have sub-frame connectors.
Your best bet is to have this job done by someone who knows how to weld, has the proper lift device. (The car needs to be sitting on it's suspension while the connectors are installed) In other words, a pro. Bite the bullet, have it done right. IMHO.
I had a friend do mine on his lift.. he put the 2 bolts where the seats are attatched then welded fronts and backs... took 20 minutes He is a recreational welder not a pro...
Pay now, not a higher price later
As others have said, yes, you can do it yourself. I did a pair on my '91 GT in exactly that way.
You could, but I certainly wouldn't suggest you do it that way. For one thing, you can get better quality materials and prices at a proper welding store. For another, oxyacetylene is a no-no on the majority of automobile frames and bodies you'll encounter these days. Older vehicles (early 70's and below if I recall correctly) can use flame welding processes, but the HSLA steel used these days doesn't handle that method well at all. Your best bet is MIG, even with the older vehicles. TIG would be good too, but manufacturers (well, Ford at least) specifies MIG for welding repairs on their vehicles and it's also about 1/4 of the price to get started with MIG as compared to TIG.
There's lots of welding related sites out there, and truth be told you can get quite far by just reading web sites, books, and practicing a lot with scrap metal and simple projects. Videos are actually more helpful since you can see what it is you need to do as opposed to trying to visualize it.
Sounds like you'll just have to wait, then. I didn't tackle the subframe connector project on my Mustang until I had money and time to buy a decent MIG unit and to practice building some other stuff first. Even then it's still a bit difficult... welding while on your back is tough, which you'll have to do unless you have a car pit in your garage or have something other than a set of four ramps to hold the vehicle up by the tires. On top of that, welding a mounting plate for a subframe connector (which usually runs somewhere between 1/8 and 3/16 inch thick) to the subframe of the car (which is less then half to a third of those measurements, respectively) is really quite tricky. Add to that the fact that Ford subframes have a zinc coating on top of them in addition to all the paint and primer, and well, you've got a pretty messy situation that makes for a lot of sparks, holes popping in the metal, and nasty fumes. It's not fun.
As it was posted previously, unless you're planning on doing a lot of welding, don't bother buying the equipment and trying to do it yourself. Between the cost of equipment, proper electrical supply, safety gear, consumables, and time spent to learn it it simply isn't worth it if all you want is one set of subframe connectors.
Not to mention the car should be perfectly level when you do it.
I've done a LOT of MIG welding, like the others say, started where it wouldnt show... proceed to body panels after a half-spool and large tank of gas.. and it was STILL ugly.
Better safe than sorry.
The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote in news:mtjYe.7662$9a2.7385@trnddc04:
The fault is probably not in your skills but in the equiptment that you bought. Those little mighty migs are made to make nasty looking welds, I haven't seen to many that would make a constant clean weld.
...Ron
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68' Camaro RS 88' Firebird Formula 00' Mustang GT VertI had a friend do mine too. He had me bring it down to the shop where he works.
He put it up on a lift and welded them on.
It was a few years ago and it only cost me (I volunteered, he didn't ask) one hour.
Oh, did I mention... he's a professional frame and body man.
Friend or not - have a pro do it. Since you do not know what you are doing, getting it wrong it will be more heartache than it's worth.
Kate
Could be to some extent... it's a lincoln and I am using flux-core wire so I don't have deal with the gas. But I know for a fact that I am not doing things correctly much of the time.
I see no problem with welding in your own garage.... however (there's always "howevers").... You don't just pull a helmet down over your eyes and start welding.
Of all welding types, MIG is likely the easiest to learn.... but it still takes practice to get good penetration and a nice finish. IMHO, flux core MIG is a waste of time since the flux is open to contamination (the flux burns and provides the arc shielding necessary to prevent inclusions and other problems. Additionally, MIG is not well suited for overhead welding.... It can be done, but when it "wants" to give trouble, it will - even to seasoned pros.
TIG is the best... offering great penetration, minimal heat distortion and a wonderful finish.... difficult to master and machines (and replacement tungstens) are NOT cheap.
Regular electric welding is out of the question... buzz boxes are cheap and give cheap looking results. Good welders are spendy but give better results. In either case, even with the thinnest rod available, sheet metal welding is near impossible. Heat distortion is always a concern and rod storage is always a real problem. Get this type of welding medium damp once and you can throw it away. The flux will "fingernail" and break away leaving the weld unshielded.
Gas (flame) welding is a joke.... poor penetration, low quality in the molecular bonding.... very little strength to be had in this sort of welding. Heat distortion concerns will be evident.
For your application. The weight of the car needs to be distributed on the wheels in the exact same manner as if it were sitting on the street. Supporting the car on jack points, diff housing, control arms or any other points will add deflection to the structure. If the connectors are welded in while the car isn't "natural", this deflection will be built into the car. Added stresses, unexpected handling and ill fitting body panels will all result from improper installation of any frame mods done improperly.
HTH
Aside from all the technical aspects, which can be overcome with education and practice....
The garage would be safe IF there is plenty of ventilation, and you have no leaking gas lines
If things get out of hand in a worse case scenario... will your insurance coverage protect you?
Will you be doing a considerable amount of future welding? If not, I think you would find it cheaper to take a day off (call in sick) and take the car to a good shop, rather than spend a lot of bucks on something you may never use again.
Weld on are better, but, the bolt ons are good. One big difference is in how you plan to use the car. If you're going racing... have them welded in.... if you just want to tighten up the suspension. bolt ins will suffice as long as they are properly installed.
Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.Gad what fools these morons be.... Children are obscene but should not be heard Give me a peperoni pizza... or give me a calzone!
Too bad about the not having gas part. The fluxcore wire always seems to make a mess as far as I can tell, lots of soot around the worked surface. I opted for a Lincoln 125 amp with gas and love it. It makes smooth welds and no soot, of course you have to know what to do with the dials when it's not arcing smooth. Practice and a steady hand are the key to nice welds.
...Ron
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