winsor 351 in 68 mustang

Other than displacement, the Windsor and Cleveland engines share nothing in common. The cleveland makes a great race motor. It's strong, and makes lots of power at the top of the power band. But it's heavier than the windsor, and solid performance parts are hard to come by. Stick with the Windsor. It's an easy drop in installation, and there is every kind of performance part available that you can imagine for a reasonable price. 500 hp can easily be had with off the shelf parts. Of course, the 351 is taller than the 289/302. So hood clearance is often an issue in the 65-68 Mustangs. You'll need to consider a hood scoop or an aftermarket hood for clearance. If you want power in a small package, the 5.0 short block can produce 400hp with the right heads and intake; 650-700 hp with a turbo. And don't forget the 347. What's your poison?

thanks for the info. my goal is some where in between 400-500 horsepower, but i have a few more questions. from what the seller says the engine is from a 1974 2bbl carb truck which makes it a 2 valve engine. what i'm wondering is can i buy 4 valve heads to majorly increase engine performance or will just adding a 4 bbl manifold, headers, new pistons and new cam reach my goal of 400-500 horsepower?

also i am wondering why this book i bought "Ford engine parts" rates a stock 1974-SAE Net Winsor 351 at 154@4600 rpm horsepower and 208@2000 rpm torque, when a Ford 289 from the 1960's has a horsepower rating in the lower 200's and torque in the upper 200's? what is the cause for the 289 to have more horsepower and torque then the 351W?

thanks again

matthew

Matthew,

If your going to be looking at a goal of 400-500hp, expect to spend at least $5,000-$7,000 to get there.

Bill S.

matthew wrote:

All Windsor engines have 2 valves per cylinder. You can get 4 valve heads that are a bolt on replacement, but they are about twice what a good set of alum heads cost. You get a real WOW factor, but I don't think you get enough extra performance to justify the additional cost. I've seen the web site, but I've never seen them in person, and I've never talked with anyone who has done it. For solid reliable performance stick with normally aspirated, moderate compression (10:1), good heads (AFR, TF), electronic ignition, and a moderate hydraulic roller cam. In a 351 that should net you pretty close to 450hp without too much tuning. EFI is very nice for drivability. But unless you're using an 8 stack or something fairly radical, you'll not get additional performance. Since you're building a street car, build your engine to make it's power below 5500 rpm's. What you really want is torque, and area under the curve. Don't pay a lot of attention to peak HP numbers, as they can be deceptive.

There was a major change in the way engines were tested and rated sometime in the early 70's (I think). Anyway, current testing methods are much more realistic. The 351W you're looking at is a truck motor, built to meet emissions standards of the early-mid 70's. In a word, that engine sucks. As far as performance goes, the only things you're likely to use is the block, crank, and front cover. Everything else will be pitched, either because it is 30 years old, or it won't meet your performance standards. You may not even be able to use those parts, depending on what kind of shape they are in.. Here's my best advice. Avoid that old used engine. You'll spend a lot of time and money getting it up to standards. For the same money and a lot less hassle, you can buy a good crate motor from Ford, or Coast High Performance. If you want to do the assembly yourself to save a little dough, look at PAW. My 427W (stroked/bored 351W) came from PAW. I spent about 2 weeks in my spare time putting it all together. All the machining was right on, I checked everything. Everything arrived just as advertised. I would buy from them again. I'm using a roller cam, and an 8 stack EFI. I expect pretty close to 600hp, and 650 ft/lb at 6500 feet of altitude. More than enough for my 2400 pound car.

I think your confusing the term 2V and 4V with valves. It actually means "venturi" what we commonly call "barrels" of the carburetor The 351 Windsor's heads are the same regardless of whether it has a 2 barrel or 4 barrel. Cleveland's use different heads for their 2V and 4V versions ( they actually have 2 or 4 cast in the front corner). 2V Cleveland's are "open chambered" whereas early 4 V heads are "closed chambered" the 4V heads also have larger valves. Ironically the 2V heads have larger valves than even the best SB Chevy head!

There are aftermarket heads available for the 351 Windsor that are improvements over the stock head. Breathing on Windsor's have always been a shortcoming due to small port and valve design ( Although the vintage stock 351W heads were better than 289/302 heads)

By 1974 the motors were getting smogged down and timing was retarded compression ratios fell etc. Also the 289/302 in the 60's were measured in Gross HP. Net figures came in in

1972 and have been here ever since. StuK

V heads are

Vintage hp and torque curves are irrelevant today. Look in the various speed catalogs for stuff made with todays technology. Lots of curves in the Edelbrock catalog and website.

You are on a budget, that means you want a Windsor. Leave the Cleveland to others.

Erich

The following are *Brake*(aka Gross) horsepower ratings.

1969 351W 4V 290HP@4800 385lbs/ft@3200

1970

351W 2V 250HP@4600 355lbs/ft@2600 351C 2V 250HP@4600 355lbs/ft@2600 351C 4V 300HP@5400 380lbs/ft@3400

FYI: The most significant difference between the 351W and 351C are the heads. The Cleveland heads are what make this engine - Cleveland

4V heads feature HUGE canted valves (intake head diameter ~2.19", exhaust head diameter ~1.71). A comparable 351W head features ~1.8" intake and ~1.5" exhaust valve head diameters. Differences between 351W and 351C can be found @ Yet another $.02 worth from a proud owner of a 1970 Mach 1 351C featuring 340 *NET* HP @ 5,000 RPM & 400 ft/lb torque @ 3,300 RPM @