BMW 3 versus Maximas

Not a contest in the reliablity dept., the Maxima wins. Repair costs are also an issue with BMW's.

Nick

The above is probably true. However, do yourself a favor and drive the 2 cars. If you can't tell the difference, get the Maxima...

Or if you can tell the difference but need to get places in snow, then get the Maxima.

I really don't see the problem with a BMW in snow, I love RWD in snow because it is so much harder to get stuck somewhere. Try to get onto a busy road from an ice side road with FWD, your wheels spin and spin and by the time you start moving cars are already coming again. I DON'T want a mustang because they are horrible RWD's, but most other behave excellent in snow, just stay of the gas in a turn.

I've owned lots of RWD cars (including three BMW 3 series) and I would choose it in a second over FWD in anything BUT snow. With most of the weight on the driving tires it almost always gets moving. Once it's moving, it's another story (but managable). On the other hand, RWD just sits and spins unless you put 4 good snow tires on it and even then it's not as good as a FWD car with all seasons at not getting stuck. Also the Max has just about the sweetest V6 engine ever built. I know the BMW straight six is a nice motor, but the all aluminum DOHC engine in the Max is just plain awesome and damn near indestructable. In reality, they are both excellent cars, it's just a matter of personal preference.

I owned simultaneously a 1996 BMW 3 and a 1992 Maxima. The Bimmer was a sweet drive but after 5 frustrating years of minor (seatbelt mounting came apart when the car was *two weeks* old, oxygen sensor had to be replace three times in the first 18 months, hood strut crumpled etc) and major (consumed and continued to consume horrid quantities of engine oil from its

*second* year of service, climate control system went kaput and required enormous number of diagnostic hours and ultimately a nice wad of $$$ in replacement costs, etc etc), I ditched it. The decision was helped by the fact that the 3 dealers I used here (Toronto, Ontario) took delight in treating customers like they were a darned inconvenience.

The Maxima? I still have it. Almost 300,000 km on the clock and still sweet. Engine is unbelievable; smooth, solid and just downright refuses to have a major problem. The performance of that engine convinced me to replace the BMW with a 2001 Infiniti I 30 (its reliability has also been a dream) and when I pick up another vehicle this year, it will have an engine from that family.

All the anecdotal evidence I have suggests that where vehicle reliability is concerned, the German marques have much to learn from the Japanese.

Ijed

2 cars: wife's Saab 9-3 (fwd) with all seasons vs. my E46 BMW (rwd) with Blizzaks. In snow, the BMW easily goes where the Saab does not. YMMV!

Tom

The trick in snow with Front Wheel Drive is to go up hill in reverse and its also easier to reverse than to drive forwards and the motion of the car throws the CG backwards and the effective weight shifts from the front to the back.

The BMW has the driving wheels at the back so the CG shift has more effect - Ok no steering when spinning but they all spin on snow - BUY SNOW TYRES!

WOuld you really buy a NISSAN over a BMW?????????????

Hugh

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen snipped-for-privacy@h-gee.co.uk snipped-for-privacy@bognor-bill.co.uk

Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

------------------------------------------------- Vyisder Asmeni Orsisarsis Asderisorsis. B.Cozderiz Vunarz PERORZ

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I think the issue is that he can indeed tell the difference, but he should still go for the Maxima. The trouble with reliability/repair costs is that it creeps on you slowly, so that when one looks back at the true costs of ownership, the "sweet drive" of the BMW is very, very expensive.

In a BMW you pay for the driving experience, in a Maxima for the reliability. Everyone has a different trade off between driving experience and reliability and the answer will be different for everyone. For me, I don't even want to be seen dead in a Maxima. And it's a good thing that everyone likes something different, image how expensive that popular brand would end up being!

All very good stuff guys, thanks!

The car in question would be driven in Southern California so no snow issues.

Intuitively, one can assume that the Maxima is more reliable overall than a BMW. The next logical question: Is the disparity between the BMW 3's and the Maxima's reliability ratings outweigh the increased performance, style and ride comfort you get with a BMW? Basically, is the reliability of a Maxima so much better than the BMW 3-series that, given the same price, most logical, semi-practical people should choose the Maxima?

-Darren

To quote Jesse James from West Coast Choppers "Driving a car from point A to point B is not the point. The car is the point".

When you consider reliability you are dealing with statistics. Chances are that either car will be a lemon. You should rather base your decision on other more tangible points. Rank your priorities. Drive the two cars. Drive them again. See what you like and dislike about them and compare the results.

IMHO the BMW is a more sophisticated vehicle. It costs more to buy, it costs more to maintain. However the first three years maintenance except tires is covered. It retains its value better. You get a better service, you get a free loaner vehicle, often another BMW, and you get to see and dream about even better BMWs.

If you can afford it, my advise is to lease a new BMW. If your ride is not a high priority, the Maxima will be great to own for many years. Actually I kind of like the V6 Altima a bit better.

The bottom line is you get what you pay for.

If your desire is to drive a semi-luxo rice burner then go with the Datsun. If your desire is to drive one of the finest engineered luxury automobiles in the world...well you know the rest. There IS no comparison.

Scenario: say you spend $30K on each vehicle - drive them both five years, and then compare TANGIBLE maintenance needed, maintenance done and dollars spent - combined with what the vehicle willl resell for at the end of the 5 years...everything else is simply a bias or $$ outlay justification for NOT buying a BMW 3 series (used or new). Do you actually think the yapanese can deliver a more substantial vehicle? They freeking COPY the BMW vehicles!

I personally have had four BMW's over the last twelve years, currently owning an '00 328Ci, and a '75 2002. Others have included a '90 535i and a '95 M3. You'd have to pry my dead fingers off the steering wheel of either of this automobiles to get me to purchase a rice burner of any variety, for any driving season.

Do you think "AUTOMOBILE" magazine wirters/editors focus on BMW's every time Bangle farts because they prefer rice burners?

Something to think about...

in article snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com, Darren at snipped-for-privacy@iwon.com wrote on 1/18/04 8:55 PM:

I think you are asking a question that's impossible to answer. Even if statistical reliability favors the Nissan, there are way too many variables in purchasing used cars to tell if one is going to be more reliable than the other. This would be true even if both were the same make and model. So much depends on how the previous owner(s) drove the car, maintained the car, the conditions under which it was used, etc., etc. Some of it just comes down to pure luck. In used cars you take your chances, and nothing said here will change that. It's up to you to decide whether a BMW or Maxima is right for you. BMW's do demand more from their owners and deliver more in return. But, expect to pay for repairs and maintenance on either one because either one will be a used car. How much and how much difference between the 2 is anyone's guess.

This is so true. As an owner of a 90 535i/5spd/93K which I bought used in

1995 with 38K miles, the condition of the car is what will determine reliability. Other than "routine" maintenance, my car has been almost trouble free for the last 7+ years. On the other hand, at some point I know I'm gonna have to put in some $$$ in my front suspension as the bushings will require replacement. Still, if I spend a few thousand every 100,000+ to maintain the maneuverabilty and driveability of this car, its well worth it.

Some keys to buying a used car, no matter what make - get the one that looks like new (imagine how the car looked new and *see* how close that used one is to it) and get all service records. Also, have it checked by by a competent mechanic...

BMW's are indeed beautiful driving machines, not just, as someone mentioned, a method of getting from point A - B. It's a given; that is what BMW markets itself as. Nissan (not Datsun, get out of the 80's) does not. They market themselves to the near luxury crowd, looking for unbeatable Japanese reliability and arguably approaching #1 in that department as Toyota has gone to crap.

The new Maxima/3.5 Altima is not a BMW in terms of its abilities as a stock vehicle. Now, take an Infiniti G35 - this car was made to compete with the 3 series+. It IS comparable, and frankly I'd take the G35 over the 3 series any day of the week. You also have to remember, more Maxima owners bought their car with the expectation that the car will easily last 10 years without any major headaches. BMW isn't known for their reliability, face that. You have to 'pay to play' I guess. Granted I'd rather drop 30k on a Maxima and then put in 2 - 3k to make the thing a monster in the handling/engine department and not have to worry about dome lights dropping out, electrical problems out the ass, and moon roofs sealing shut IN THE FIRST 3 MONTH'S I OWN THE CAR (this coming from a friend with an 02 M3...)!

I was looking to buy a used car a year back. I could have afforded an older

3 series (97ish), but instead decided to save my money and go with a 4th generation Maxima (95 - 99). It is a 5-speed and I have literally embarrassed many, many 3-series of the same vintage. I have minimal upgrade's (CAI, full y-pipe back exhaust, AGX+Eibach suspension), and the car still gives me the rush and excitement that makes me dump my money in it for gas and what ever else catches my eye. All of this with amenities that rival many German auto makers (interior design in my generation Maxima is in my opinion, one of the most elegant and well designed of any car I've seen) and reliability BMW can not touch.

Lastly, find me a BMW owner with a car that has 200k+ on the odo, that still has a grin on his face... Good luck.

Then head over to Google, you'll find thousands and thousands of Maxima owners still running strong on original engines, and still running the quarter mile in 14's (with their 4-door grocery getter).

What it comes down:

If you have money shooting out of every orifice of your body, go for the BMW. If you have to consider how much this car will cost to maintain 7 - 8 years down the road, go for the Maxima.

Nick

If you want reliability, you should still look at Toyota. Nissan has always had problems/irritations that they never recalled. You make a long list of issues with their vehicles that they never stepped up to make right. Toyota did extend warranties and made good on a few goof-ups they may have made. Honda also is going down based on TL owners needing to replace up to 4 transmissions before 100k. Well at least they extended the trans warranty. I've had many Toyotas and many Nissans, but I would pick a Toyota for cheap worryfree driving, and a BMW for fun. Nissan would be a pick if I got it at an excellent price. At least it would help pay for whatever they messed up on the car that hasn't shown up yet. And Nissans are kinda fun too.

A Datsun otherwise named remains a Datsun.

A fool and his money are soon parted - if you choose to part with yours via rice burnerville, your choice. Automobile manufacturers have been trying for YEARS to emulate or otherwise reproduce the 3 series and none have made it...HUH?

Interesting you've NEVER owned a BMW yet you're spouting off....hmmmm. Guess boys will be boys.

Lastly I have a '75 BMW with 230K on the odometer and people still like the looks of it, it still runs and still passes emissions. Synthetic oil, care and maintenance records have stood the test of time - no riceburner will do that.

If I want to drive a commodity I'd buy something in blue or silver. I choose cache - do you even know what that is? lol

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Nick spewed... (this coming from a friend with an 02 M3...)!

My Pentium has a cache. My BMW has cachet.

Tom