BMW 3 versus Maximas

"Brian" wrote

All the PC's I've ever bought worked 1st time right out of the box. The Mac my wife bought lost it's harddisk within one week.

See where anecdotal stories get you?

Floyd

I've seen fewer problems with MACs crashing than PCs and any company will have a few defects out the box.

Could not have said it better yourself, topposter? When you grow up, maybe you'll learn how to post AND how to tell a great car from a crap one with a big engine.

Just gotta step in here.

1. It's Rice Rockets here in Canada, not Rice Burners.

1. Reliability and Quality are seperate. There is no doubt that those who jumped onto the Titanic for the first voyage should have waited for the Reliability to be upped, the quality definately was there. I'd still hop into a DC3 today and feel fairly safe, but a Ford Tri-motor would give me goosebumps. A lot more DC-3's were built than Tri-Motors, and although the quality is high, the reliability is starting to go downhill.

rtt

Actually, it's the other way around. Japanese cars have never been famous for their longevity. They are a cheaper, shorter term alternative to a European car. That is no fault of theirs, that's exactly the market niche they want. Their philosophy is a good one...give the consumer 4 to 8 years of reliable service and sell them another car. I have absolutely no problem with that and have owned many Japanese cars in my day, but as they got older they broke down hard and fast. Let's face it...even the best Honda, Nissan or Toyota become repair nightmares after 10 years. When a Japanese car goes...it really goes. Your BMW will be cheaper over the long haul, if you plan to keep it for 10 years or more. Parts do not wear out as quick.

"You get what you pay for" is one argument you can never dispute no matter how hard you try.

I agree. My '95 Nissan Hardbody has been the most reliable vehicle that I have ever owned. Although, my E30 ain't too bad either.

1960's Mopars? Wake up call, any new car is light-years ahead of any 1960's American car for reliability, that includes cooling systems, ignition systems, and certainly the body hardware. No BMW of mine has ever stranded me, all have had over 150,000 miles on them, the 530 had 224,000 when I sold it. Proper maintenance goes a long way. Colin

"Colin" wrote

Arguably, the new BMW cooling systems, with plastic impellers in the water pumps in the early '90s (since replaced with metal) and the aluminum/plastic radiators in current BMWs are not very reliable or as tough as old ones.

Floyd

As I have mentioned before: If you are considering BMW or Mercedes... you can get 95% of what they have for 50% of the price in a Maxima.

Mine is 14 years old, well maintained, and looks and drives the same as the day I got it. I am selling it next week. Depreciation for 14 years is $12k. Less than $1,000 per year. Only costs have been tires, batteries, and wiper blades. Oh, and, of course, oil/fluid changes.

I never replaced it because it wouldn't die and the newer models didn't show me much that was new, better, or different.

Dan,

You speak of cars as if they were livestock. "Pedigree"? "Heritage"?

You are undoubtedly the target market for the BMW hucksters. That intangible "cachet" that you value so highly costs, as near as I can figure, about $15,000. Granted, part of that will pay for full maintenance. The rest is delusions of grandeur and pseudo-European elitism, in my opinion.

As for copying... Have you taken a look at the new 5 series? I considered buying one until I saw the inflated price and looked at the 2004. It looks like a Honda Accord that has been rear-ended. Who's copying whom?

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I have great respect for the good autos made by BMW in the past. But I will not pay $900 for a paint color other than black or white, $800 for xenon headlights, $3500 for a sun roof, $1300 for an automatic tranny, $7,000 for a half-liter bigger 6 cyl, $16,000 for a V8, etc., etc. Try to find a BMW without the Premium Package. Good luck. I can't.

The Maxima or Infiniti or Acura come equipped with all of those things and more as well as state of the art all aluminum, 4-valve, variable cam timing, double overhead cam, award winning engines that run forever with very little attention. The Infinit's guarantee is better than BMW's but without routine maintenance included. Their service and customer satisfaction is legendary. So is BMW's.

I do not disagree that every BMW coupe or sedan handles like a dream with a unique feel. However, I shall repeat: with an Infiniti G35 "rice burner" and car of the year, you get 95% of that feel at 50-60% of the cost and can run circles around a 325ia or 330 ia. AND, it's RWD.

In closing, let me leave you with two words: i-drive.

Dave

"Kraut-Krunchers?"

People who believe "you get what you pay for" are the fodder of con-men and charlatans the world over. A corollary is that "if it costs a lot, it must be good."

It's all B.S.

Dave

"MW" drooled out a message in news:FVPOb.7948$AA6.2023@fed1read03...

If Max's are rice burners does that make BMW's Kraut Burners?

Hmm. I'm getting hungry!

"Kein Zeitungsknabe wird uns jemals erzählen, was gerade alt oder brandneu ist, damit wird er höchstens soviel erzielen, wie ein Hund der gegen Bäume pißt."

This currently is a somewhat significant worry for me with my 97 328. It has had a minor coolant leak since new, and the dealer was unable to find/correct it after three attempts during the warranty period. Now I carry pre-mixed coolant on all out-of-town trips to top off when necessary

- something I never had to do in several thousands of miles of multiple cross-country trips with 40 year old Mopars and 20 year old Nissans.

I specifically bought my 328 because I *must* have at least one car that is RWD, manual transmission, ind rear susp, etc. I also *expected* that I was getting both higher quality AND better reliability at the same time.

So far I'm still happy with the car - it is by far the best cross-country touring car I've ever owned. 600 miles a day is pure pleasure to drive. However, as to reliability - I dunno. With the old Mopar's I never worried about failures from....

1. Plastic Thermostat housings
2. Plastic Radiator hose nipples that turn to mush.
3. Rear Differential Carrier mounts ripping from the body floor
4. Shock tower mounts that disintegrate.
5. Electrical wiring that might disintegrate from flexing by opening the trunk
6. a bottle special antifreeze
7. Going through a car wash, or heavy rainstorm and having the car's electronic brains flooded out due to poor engineering design of the drainage.

So at present the 328 isn't winning the gold medal for most worry-free car in terms of reliability - that goes to an 87 Nissan 200sx (Z-car with a back seat) passing 200K only replacing wear items and no sleepless nights on long trips. Let's hope it's still in the running, though - especially if I can find that damn coolant leak when I pull the radiator again in a couple of months.

Frank

Thanks for the convincing argument. How a Maxima comes up short compared to a 5 series depends on what qaulitative and or quantitative measurments that appeal most to you.

The 3 series and its 2.5

OK. Fine.

I'm not trying to convince everyone about a class issue. I'm just touting the virtues I find very appealing about a Maxima. They make a Maxima worth more to me than some BMWs. As for getting my head out of my ass, I think you must have trouble seeing, and that must be due to you having had a cork up your butt for so long. Granted, it must have been a fine cork, from the-exclusive-snobs-rare-vintage-wine-I-am-better-than-thou club.

If you were to pay 30 grand, you'd be getting an A4, not an A6. And the only A6 that generates passion for me is the RS6, but of course it's nose bleed sticker price will keep that away from my garage for a while. And besdies, it's too expensive to enjoy unless your really rich. I'm the kind of guy who likes to drive. It's not so much the pose factor or the fact that 'you've arrived' that appeals to me. The otehr factors are a plus, but not necessary. And I don't think the Maxima is even trying to look like an A6. It looks like a 350z blown up into a 4 door sedan. You think I hate German cars. I don't. I love Mercedes Benz and Porsches. In fact, I just read up the specs on the GT3, and that exactly my kind of car. 6- speed manual, wicked NA flat-6, great body, and the best part, no traction control and other electronic stability gizmos, just ABS, the way it should be. My problem here is with the not very well justified snobbishness and prejudicial notions of many BMW owners, like yourself. Nothing against the car itself. Also, Japanese cars have racing heritiage and mystique. Not as deep as Germens, but it's there. Skyline, Sylvia, Acura NSX, Honda S2000, Integra Type R, Supra Turbo, twin turbo 300zx. These japanese cars will put some German makes to shame.

CD

Have the radiator pressure tested and look carefully for hair-line cracks in the upper plastic radiator tank. Heat and vibration, sticking thermostats often cause the plastic to fail. It can't be fixed reliably. Needs replacement but, if you look well, you can find a radiator wholesaler (on the Internet) that can ship you a new one for close to $100. I did it.

Also, a bad bearing and seal in the water pump can cause a leak from the weep hole there. Look for the tell-tale green or yellow fluid in both locations. Both are slow leaks. I know the drill of carrying around a container of coolant. PITA.

In the case of the crack in the tank, once the water level drops below the crack, it stops leaking and is hard to find. Another clue is that your overflow hose and reservoir are not operational because they work on a vacuum created by the cooling of the coolant. But, with a crack... the vacuum won't form and the system won't work as designed.

Thanks much. I've been trying to do all these things. Dealer pressure tested (or said he did) the system 3 times. I keep looking for the tell-tale sign of dried antifreeze somewhere, but can never find it. I've replaced thermostat, and plastic housing. Pulled entire radiator and inspected at last coolant change.

Also, my system 97 328 does not appear to have an *overflow* system. There is no separate, unpressurized, overflow container with a hose from *above* the pressure - so that it would catch coolant overflow from above a max pressure value.

I think I have a small crack, or leak in something plastic - just cannot find it, and hope I can before it decides to split catastrophically...

Frank

Dan,

If it were indeed true that you get what you paid for, our courtrooms would probably be empty. But, the fact is that people get ripped off all the time. It's the American way. Believing that "you get what you pay for" (in my opinion), sets you up for a major rip.

Remember the story of The Emperor's New Clothes? That's a classic (pun intended) case of someone who believed that you get what you pay for.

Here is what Consumer Reports has to say in their current issue after testing upscale sedans:

"Upscale sedans: Inside and out, the redesigned Acura TL is best in its class

Acura TL

Lexus ES330

Saab 9-5

Volvo S60

Redesigned for 2004, the Acura TL is a significant improvement over the previous version. Overall, it scored well enough in our tests not only to top this month's group, but to edge out the BMW 330i as the best upscale sedan that we've tested (see the Ratings chart). The 330i had held the top ranking for nearly three years.

The TL is based on the Honda Accord V6, which has also received excellent scores in our tests. It's more fun to drive than its predecessor and feels more like a sports sedan. The TL also has a comfortable, impeccably detailed interior and a refined 3.2-liter, V6 engine that achieved both the quickest acceleration and best fuel economy of this group.

Most of the top models in the upscale-sedan category use rear-wheel drive, which typically helps a car's handling and steering. While the front-wheel-drive TL didn't quite match the BMW 330i in at-the-limit handling performance, its agility and power make it invigorating to drive. At $33,150, it also costs about $7,000 less than a comparably equipped

330i."