I had an experience with State Farm a few years back -- wreck was the other driver's fault -- which was quite unpleasant. In all it took many phone calls and finally mentioning the problem to an executive with State Farm who attended our church before they agreed to take car of the accident. In all, it was over a month before they gave the OK for a repair. I hope you have better luck.
And what kills me is they will drag their feet for a month but once they decide to honor their end of the deal, they bitch at the body shop if the actual work takes a day over what they think it should and start asking the body shop to pay the rental car etc... We've waited 2 weeks for an adjuster to come out and approve extra work, then complain that it takes 3 days to finish the car up!
How much revenue do you think that information generate?
And... how do you fairly determine the lost value in a specific situation?
BuddyWh
Dunno about the first question. I went to a website which caluclated the value.
There's a generic loss value calculation out there. I don't remember exactly, but it was something like 10% of the repair total. You'd have to look it up.
Some good references I found were here:
Inherent diminished value is the result of a prospective buyer's perception that a damaged and repaired vehicle is not as valuable as another vehicle of same year, make and model that has never been damaged. This form of diminished value value exists even if the vehicle has been completely restored to industry standards and meets all manufacturer specifications. This loss of value results from the perception that the vehicle can never regain its pre-loss value, regardless of the quality of the repair.
Repair- related diminished value is the result of a non-industry or faulty repair on the part of the repairer. Examples of this are: mismatched paint, misaligned body panels, undressed welds or use of parts that are not supplied by the original manufacturer. Also, repairs not performed in accordance with industry standards, or repairs that may, in any way, compromise the vehicle warranty, would also be considered as repair- related diminished value. In order to determine repair related diminished value, a physical inspection of the vehicle would be required.
Diminished value in general is highly subjective and can only be accurately determined by the actual sale of the vehicle in a retail market as compared to the sale price of an identical vehicle in the same market area. If the repaired vehicle is new, and sold immediately after repairs are completed, loss of value could be quite substantial. However, if the same vehicle is sold several years later, the loss of value would most likely be nil.
Hi guys,
Thank you all providing very valuable insights. Finally after a week long phone calls, the claims department of State Farm (SF) called yesterday and asked me where I want to get my car fixed. I told them that I want to get it fixed at my Nissan Dealer Collision Center (Roanoke,VA). Because this is a nissan collision center, I am hoping paint will match when compared to others, please correct me if I am wrong. SF representative told me that the shop I want to get it fixed is SF approved "Service First" centers, so SF will send the cheque directly to the collision center after the repair is done. The SF representative also told me that I will be provided a rental car for the period where my car is in the shop (5 days as per the collision center estimater). As per all your suggestions, I asked the SF rep. how do I claim the diminished value of my car. She told me that, it can only be done once the car is repaired.
Based on what I read on this news group and on Internet, once they pay for the repairs the Insurance companies are no longer obligated to payme anything. Legally the case is closed, right?? If this is correct, then I should try to fight with the SF people before I get my repaired, right? What do you all suggest? I asked couple of my friends but I have got conflicting answers and more over, all of them don't completely understand what diminished value of the car mean.
thanks a lot guys, really appreciate all your suggestions and helpful tips, BI
They don't have access to 'special paint' and aren't going to be using 'nissan' brand paint anyway, I don't think nissan even has paint if you wanted to buy it other than touchup paint. I'll be shocked if they match the paint perfect, make -sure- you are happy with the match. If not complain and don't accept this when they try to pull the "your old paint is faded" BS. The car is supposed to be put back into 'pre-accedent condition' and the paint matched before the wreck.
I know if they write a check for the damage and you cash it, it's a done deal. I'm not sure if that is the case here, sounds fishy to me they have to wait till it's repaired to deal with DV. I think they are hoping you will just go away and not press this issue as they are not happy about this DV crap they started!
Enough for companies like Carfax to exist. $1 a car per wreck reported would generate quite a bit of income and my guess is it's a lot more than that. The revenue generated by the used car sales people is substantial. They pay
-a lot- less for cars they can find a wreck report on and I doubt very seriously they pass this found report on when they sell the car at retail. This is the reason there is any interest in this information to start with. It's only a very small percentage of retail used car buyers that will research this type information themselves.
Fair to whom? You'd think if the insurance companies where wanting to be fair, they'd have this figured out for their PAYING customers wouldn't ya?
Very interesting... but especially this part... the subjective and uncertain nature.
Consider this hypothetical situation... a clever used car buyer notes paint finishing and undecarriage damage indicative of a repaired wreck. Using this as leverage, he gets an exellent price on the used car... well below blue book retail. A boon resulting just as much from his or her mechanical inclination and intuition as bargaining skills.
Now, of course, everyone can have access to this same kind of information, via CarFax et. al., You don't have to be a clever mechanicaly inclined buyer to find the information you could use to aid in bargaining.
To continue the hypothetical situation... if that smart buyer soon gets in an accident, he rightly should demand full blue book, quite possibly well above his actual purchase price. If the insurance company (collectively speaking) had paid the original owner for diminished value they essentialy could be paying it again. hmmm... something seems wrong here.
On the whole... as a consumer... I like the situation as it is. I tend to think we benefit more, through both reduced premiums as well as enhanced bargaining power, by haveing as much information available as possible, and with no dimished value payment.
BuddyWh
The reason I am preferring Nissan is that I am hoping they will do a good job, if nothing else just to keep up their reputation. And more over I dont know any other auto body shop which does a good job.
Well in my case I think that State Farm will not send me a check directly. As the collision center is State Farm's service first authorized shops, they will reimburse the shop directly (atleast for the repairs). I will call up the State farm guys once again and see if I can get the DV claim started off.
thanks a lot Steve for taking the time to write down all this valuable information. Really appreciate all your help, BI
No because there is a record of the accedent. The whole point was...
-because- they have these records and use them against the consumers, the consumer should be paid for their lost. The second own would suffer no DV since the car already has the "wreck record" so no DV would be paid, nor would the car bring as much on being totaled as a car that had never been wrecked. And yes they use these record to pay less for a totaled car payoff as well "Well the car was wrecked once before so it's value is.....", heard that from them before as well.
No one ever said these record are bad or that no one should tell a perspective buy that a car was in a wreck. What is being said is: If the insurance companies are going to sell this information and make it publicly avalible, they should pay the DV that it causes. It's not that complex or some kind of "ethical" question, it's just a fact. The ONLY person who is getting screwed is the owner of the car and the insurance company isn't going to lose twice paying for DV.
BTW why are you so concerned about the insurance company saving money?
Oh there is nothing wrong with using them, just check the paint match carefully when you pick the car up. Once you "accept" the car, it's harder to get anything done. If you refuse to accept the work, you stay in the rental car and the insurance company has more pressure on them. Trust me it's the insurance companie's idea to panel paint the car, the body shop would much rather blend to ajacent panels to get a good match.
No problem, hope it works out!
Yeah, I now own a "previously wrecked" Maxima. Yes, it is fixed. It "should" work as before and perform as before in any subsequent accidents, but it will always be tagged as "accident" material.
Therefore, though, my wife got some pune personal damage ($1500), we should get compensation for the car.
Very simple... if jacks up my premium! Insurance co's don't pay out from a vacuum, they pay from their rate pool. If you have a problem with the profits insurance companies make in your state then attack it through your state's insurance regulatory process.
It is so subjective and it's speculative nature makes it far more complex than it appears. In short... the owner is not getting screwed unless they sell the car and realize a loss because of it. Absent that it is purely theoretical.
Very simply, if the owner never sells the car they never realize a loss! If they sell the car years down the road, the DV is much less than if they sold it immediately. .
Not only that, but no matter how much you see it otherwise it is not a given that buyers will demand, nor sellers need give, consideration. At the best (worst?) insurance companies should only be on the hook for actual, realized losses where the seller demonstrates good fiduciary responsibility in the sale.
Don't mix this issue with "the repair can never be as good as the original manufacture". That is decidedly different... many times true. But, while I don't suggest accepting a substandard repair... what truely is good enough? It's important to me that some (many??) insurance companies guarantee repairs for the life of the auto if you take it to one of their preferred shops. If a repaired panel starts rusting... or a replaced window leaks... or a wreck-damaged tie rod loosens at 20 years / 200K miles, take it back to the insurance company and demand re-repair! That's far better than you are likely to get from most any auto manufacturer and should be considered to add enough value for the owner to cancel any residual DV at the same mileage/years.
Lastly... how does it alter the situation if the insurance co's _gave_ this information away? This touches on a whole other issue surrounding privacy.
Sounds to me like there are many issues that you have all bundled together here. Why are you so worried about dinging insurance companies?
BuddyWh
A puny $1500?? by personal damage... do you mean injury??
Please explain how compensation for the car (I'm assuming for DV) would make up for the pay out you accepted for your wife's injuries?
Why did you accept the $1500? you didn't need to. The insurance would still be liable years from now when latent injuries are likely to show themselves... and the therapy will be much more than $1500.
BuddyWh
Oh yea -they- are going to stop them from making to much money....
But they don't _give_ it away. They are making money off this yet refuse to pay back what this takes away from the consumer.
Exactly. I like how they now use people's credit history (or even lack thereof) as a basis for upping their auto rates! I own my house outright, don't NEED to borrow any money and haven't done so in 10 or so years. I have a very healthy investment porfolio and am basically now on the end where -I- am the one leanding other people money. Yet 2 years ago they doubled my rates because they said I had no credit history so I'm now considered a -high risk driver-! I have no tickets, no wrecks in 20 years yet get hit with this so now I HAVE to go out and borrow money/pay it back to get the insurance company off my back. It will take several years to get this sorted out and in the mean time it's costing me over $1000 a year in premium hikes!
They have WAY too much control of people's personal information for something we are required by law to have. They also have no interest in listening to anything when it is costing thre consumer money out of their pockets. It's INSANE that my lack of credit history doubles my car insurance (been with this same company for 15 years and they never cared before, now they ALL do!) yet they don't care if someone talks on a car phone while they are driving, which IS causing accedents!
Hi guys,
Just to give my status update, I called up State Farm (SF) claims department and enquired about how I can file for diminished value of my car. They put me through to another preson (I suppose she is an expert in dealing with DV cases). I explained her that due to the accident (not-my fault) my car has lost value and want to get paid for my lost value. She plainly stated that its SF's position that "in the state of Virginia, once the car is restored back to it pre-accident condition they dont pay any Diminished value". I tried to explain her that I have been to the car dealer and they have quoted me a lesser trade-in price (because my car was in an accident), but she bluntly repeated the same thing.
I don't know what to do, I know my car has certainly lost value due to the accident. And also based on all the discussion on this post, the car can never be restored to its pre-accident condition. I am planning on calling the Commissioner's office of Virginia Bureau of Insurance and see what he has to say about it. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
thanks alot for all your help and advice, BI
Yep, they transfered you to the person they -pay- to deny claims...
Yes it has. Especially when you see the paint doesn't match and they claim the rest of your car's paint has faded and it's not their fault etc etc.
If that doesn't get you anywhere, take them to small claims court! I had to do this with a larger company once when they wouldn't do the right thing. Once they got the paperwork, they settled as they knew getting lawyers involved would cost more than what I was asking for.
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