Chevrolet Engineering Team, It has come to our attention that we have found an answer to the problem your company has been seeking for the past several years...how to surpass the Dodge Viper in sheer horsepower numbers. It seems you had the answer all along. The LT-1 apparently generates 600HP with little or no problem. Simply install one of these engines and off you go! The engineer who solved this problem was a guy named Brad. Now, don't ask him for links that prove his claim, what car he drives, his credentials or even what he does for a living, simply get this LT-1, tweak it and you will have that 600HP you can't seem to find at your engineering facilities. I sincerely hope this helps in you quest to once again be Americas "King Of The Road". We here in the Porsche groups wish you the best of luck.
The reliability aspect is simple. A GM LT1 is producing its power at low RPMs and is hardly nearing its potential in stock or near stock form. The few things that do go wrong from time to time are considerably cheaper (and easier) than fixing a Porche mill.
It was built on a Renegade kit. The original owner had also built a 280Z with an L98 engine. HE thought that this car would perform similarly but discovered that due to the gearing, the acceleration was considerably higher but the car would top out at 235Km per hour and he was trying to build a car that was faster than his friends Carrera4. He succeeded only in acceleration and only when he could get enough traction.
I bought the car with the Aluminum head LT1 V8 already in for $5000. It came with the original engine and components as well, which I have recently sold for $1200 (there are plenty of burned out and tired 944 engines on the market so it is hard to get much for the Porche engine.) My car is a Canadian Spec 1988S model (lowered and stiffer suspension) which already has the 951 final ratio and hardened gears so no upgrades of the transmission was necessary.
I removed the engine and had it rebuilt with a new cam, 1.6 roller-rocker system, forged crank and pistons. I also had the engine balanced. I will dyno it in a few weeks but I expect about 400HP at the crank due to the new cam along with the headers and CAI. I went for only a mild increase in performance because of the car's light weight and undersized (by today's standards) brakes.
To save weight I removed the air conditioning condenser and pump. It has a sun-roof and I live in a cool climate.
I replaced the very heavy Porche twin radiator fans with a higher volume and much lighter single fan. I will be removing another 28 lbs right up front when I remove the flip-up headlights and replace them with clear-covered HIDs. The original radiator is sufficient for cooling although I added an oil-cooler for good measure. I relocated the battery to the rear and installed a quick fuel/elec cut-off for Solo I racing. The car still has its power steering. A power-assist brake master was used from a 924S which fit better than the 944S type. I may change it out with a GM hydraulic system that works off a GM power-steering pump for a bit better performance and saving another 10 lbs or so.
All prices are in Canadian Dollars (approximately $0.71 US per $Can)
All together the car, with a rebuilt and modified LT1 should total about $8500. As far as your demand for "proof" of costs, you'll just have to take my word for it. I don't care if you believe my costs! I am driving a fantastic car with unbelievable performance at a price less than one tenth of what many people pay to get that type of acceleration, handling and enjoyment.
Why are you such a LIAR and a f*ck-up of a human being? I never said it was a snap or cheap. I said it could do it. Before you get to ask me how to get 600hp out of a Chevy V8, (as if that's something that has never been done before during the past DECADES), first YOU tell everyone how to get 600hp out of an n/a 944 engine. I'll even let you use a turbo 944 even though that's not really the topic at hand. Tell everyone what that would cost, if you think it could even do it. Otherwise, if someone wants a 600hp 944, then they have *no choice* but to swap in a different engine.
Come on, let's hear it, oh great Porsche guru, Devils944. Tell everyone how to get 600hp out of a 944 without an engine swap.
GM is cheap power. Always has been, always will be. Camaros are poor man sports cars, always have been, always will be. (Excluding some classics).
I don't care about 600HP. I have no doubt you can get more power for less money with GM. I would rather have less power and more refinement with Porsche. But maybe that's just me.
I am comfortable getting blown away off the line by a new(est) Camaro.. because I am driving a superior automobile. Porsche. I am not a "brand name snob" but cold hard facts are just that. Who do you know who can honestly say they would rather drive a GM vehicle over a Porsche. The 944 is just a great car. It is so much fun to drive, and it has enough power to do what it was meant to. It is well balanced, and highly tuned to the max of its capacity. These are the things that are important to me in a Vehicle. I'm not a professional drag-racer, I could care less if the guy next to me can out accelerate. In two years I have opened my car up once (139 by my Speedometer). That's too fast. I don't imagine I will ever do it again. 'Potential max's are just that.. and I am not looking for top numbers, especially out of a 14 year old car. I take pride in knowing that I have one of the finest built automobiles is existence.
Remember, a car is an expression of ones' self.
Which would you rather be? Exclusive and Refined, or cheap and explosive ?
What I think about these posts is that everyone is trying to think that you can keep a Porsche as a Porsche with the GM engine. It is not. Simply put, the 944 is a really cheap "roller". A body, frame and suspension that is not too expensive and provides a wonderful platform in which the engine can do its thing. (Many racers look for a roller to place their engine/trans) If I was only looking for a Porsche 944 and wanted to remain "pure" I would only consider a 951 and preferably a later model with more power. That would be pure Porsche with all of the acceleration and handling that would be expected from that brand name. Instead, I built a car with even more performance for less money than a later model 951 can be bought for.
Anyone considering modifying a car for sport, whether it be for 1/4 mile, Solo1 or II or entry-level rallying should consider the 944/V8 combo as being a huge bang-for-the-buck. I know of (really silly) people that have spent more money than I did for the whole car to install a turbo, cams and exhaust for their little rice burners and still come away with far less performance than the V8.
You may have a bridge but I bet you wish that your Porsche could do the quarter mile in under 13 seconds and that you would prefer not to loose out to Hondas and Hyundai on the track and on the strip. If you bought one of those cars, you might even be able to attract an "import chick".
It depends. Someone with an 11 or even 12 or 13-second GM street car is probably not going to be impressed by even a modded turbo 944. Or 968. Or 928. Or older 911. I don't care how nice a car is, if it's annoyingly-slow, then I will most likely hate it or at least think it's subpar for the price. A newer Boxster? Sorry, not impressed. Obviously newer turbo 911s are in a different class than most of the older Porsches. A little rough on the pocketbook, though. Older Lexuses are nice cars, too, as quiet as a tomb, but they're not exactly eye-catching, and most are pretty slow. Different strokes for different folks. I have no problem with someone preferring this or that over what I might prefer, but when they cry "troll" and other nonsense and lie and deceive, it starts to get annoying.
I've never cared much for exclusive, but refined, cheap, and explosive make a good combination. You mentioned top speed, but to me that is unimportant. Whether a car can do 140 or 190 is immaterial since I drive them on public roads. Now, the *getting to 60 or 100*, that's different. It's not what speed you go, but how fast you get to that speed.
Years back, I used to be one of those people who would say no one needs a fast car because you can only drive so fast, etc. And then I drove a (at the time) fast car. And my eyes were opened and the light from heaven shone down upon me. And I understood. And soon I craved more. But then you take a ride in an 8-second car on the street and realize even horsepower has its limits. :) A low-12 car is scary fast to the average person. An 8-second car on the street makes you want to get out of it. If someone offers you a ride in their car, think twice if it has a parachute on the back.
------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Horsepower is a meaningless number (except to idiots that don't know anything.)" "Horsepower and torque cross at 5252RPM. Any horsepower after that is simply wasted work." -- Devils944
you know, there really are two types of "fast" cars - those that accelerate fast and those that corner fast. Frequently they are not the same car. Personally, I drove a 944 for 10 years and 250K miles and I really liked it - I am not at all impressed by cars that will accelerate faster, nor that have a higher top end - why do I care? Now, I drive a 911 - I actually enjoy watching a toyota (or whatever) pass me - it means that I can safely drive at my current speed and they will get the ticket. I also know that with a top end of closer to 180, I can probably out run them if I felt the need to do so. But I don't feel that need - it's much more fun to just push them a little to see how fast they will go to stay ahead, and it's fun to watch these cars that just have to "pass a porsche" or their day is ruined.
On the other hand, I do enjoy driving through the canyons at a comfortable speed.
Getting a 951n to run in the 13s is fairly easy. And I'm sure that the chip/downpipe/exhuast/suspension/tire mods would price very similarly to a 350 engine swap.
This is an utterly pointless discussion. Those of us who undertsand that what makes a Porsche is far more involved than a 0-60 time will always be able to appreciate the cars for what they are. Those among us looking for cost effective 1/4 times should be straying as far away from most German cars as is humanly possible. There are dozens of cars, including the 5.0 Mustang and early
90s vintage Camaro Z28 that can be very easily be made into quarter-mile-eating monsters for a fraction of the cost of many newer cars. I simply wonder; how can anyone not driving a motorcycle openly criticize the performance to cost ratio of ANY car? Even a Corvette Z06 pales in terms of price to performance when compared to something like a CBR1100XX or Ducatti Monster. Beyond that, what're a bunch of beer-swilling, Bowtie-lovin', Good ol' Boy, Chevrolet fans doing here on a Porsche group? Stick to the Chevy boards, you'll find a lot more sympathy and friendship there.
As the photographer who took those photos says, "The problem with being in the fast car is that you're always stuck behind someone when you get around to me." (ie, we're not to pass in the corners)
There have been exactly 2 Porsches that I haven't been able to catch. One was a 1500lb "911" race car sporting 300HP. He couldn't outrun me, but he could carry his speed deeper into the corners than I. His car rode in and out on a trailer as it was the furthest thing from street legal.
The second was a modified 911 Turbo. The owner of it *insisted* it was stock, until the driver of the first Porsche popped up and said, "Oh yeah, I did his mods for him. Lightened it up, played with the boost control, etc."
The rest of them I've come across have been lunch.
I enjoy perusing AAP and reading up on what's going in in Porsche-land. But when someone starts a thread ragging on "Chevies," don't expect me to stay quiet. We all have real fun cars and we should enjoy them without attempting to kick sand in others' faces.
If folks can't do that and, instead, call us beer-guzzling good-ol-boys, then you're invited to the track where you can put up or shut up. :-)
And what would you say to the Porsche-lovers who ALSO want good 1/4-mile times? Tell them to swap a 928 engine into their 944? Tell them to sell their 928 and get a new 911 turbo? This is the stuff that gets to me about this "speed" topic. Tell a Porsche purist you want your Porsche to go faster, and instead of offering up suggestions on how to make the car faster, they tell you not to mess with it because the car is perfect the way it is. It's such a cop-out.
No, stick to the Rennlist, where Porsche enthusiasts don't mind discussing ANY WAY to make their cars perform better.
Don't act like such a chump. Someone can like Porsches and Chevies at the same time. They're called "car guys."
1500lbs? I didn't know you could weld paper together. That is seriously light. Death-defying light, actually.
------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Horsepower is a meaningless number (except to idiots that don't know anything.)" "Horsepower and torque cross at 5252RPM. Any horsepower after that is simply wasted work." -- Devils944
I'd tell them that beat to hell 944s for $8,000 in the AutoTrader are the wrong ones to be buying. 928s can be had cheap, are quick, and are fairly easy to modify through companies like Devek.
See above. The problem is, quick is subjective, and so is taste. One guy would rather have a high-quality interior than a fast 0-60 time. The next could care less what the inside likes, as long as it runs the 1/4 in under 14 seconds. Buy guy number 3 wants both. Who's right? THEY ALL ARE. There's a reason Baskin Robbins sells 31 flavors and why the 911 and Corvette aren't the only 2 sports cars made.
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.