Re: V8 Conversion Question

: PLEASE READ!!! I DO NOT!!!! care if you object that this isn't how Heir : Porsche intended it to be. Please don't waste your breath. I feel that if
: it is your name on the title you should modify a car however you see fit : and opinions about the "Ethics" of vehicle modification are truly the most : stupid of all comments made.
: I have been following a V8 Conversion on E-bay, and I went out on Friday : and looked at and drove the car. I have some sincere questions, and I : wonder if anyone can offer some actual insight.
: The car I looked at was a 500 and some odd horsepower 67 911. I drove it : and it was no more tail happy than any 930 I have driven (including my : own). I really didn't find a problem with weight balance at all. I have : heard some arguments about center of gravity, etc, but I couldn't make this : car exhibit anything that didn't feel stock plus 300% HP.
In 1969 Porsche lengthened the 911 chassis because with the 6 cylinder hanging out there (vs the 4 from the 356), the cars weren't always handling hard corners correctly. While the first chapter of Naders book "Unsafe at any Speed" was dedicated to the Corvair, subsequent chapters were dedicated to Buick secret recalls, VW van's getting sucked into the oncoming lane when trucks passed, and the 911 due to problems in corners. (As a teen I wanted to buy a 67 corvair convertable and my dad made me read the book cover to cover... by 65, Chevy had fixed the corvairs problems, but the damage was done and the car died). Ironically, my dad owned a VW van at the time and I constantly pointed out to him how dangerous that car was after reading the book.
I don't know if it was just that most folks put down the book after the first chapter or ??? but it seems people were a bit more upset about the Corvairs which were a pretty standard (although unconventional) car, whereas most didn't get too upset if someone bought a sportscar and rear ended a tree (which was the most common accident).
Porsche themselves were having enough trouble with the cars to make a change, course, they may have been pushing the cars hard, and you might not.
I suspect it's not just weight, but how far it's hanging in relation to the axle, and your hanging more weight farther out (8 cylinders) than they were.
While the v8 motor is debatable, it's probably much less debatable in cars that are pre 1969.
<snip>
At least the Porsche owners weren't losing their left arms as well, from the book, most Corvairs owners lost a arm after the car spun, hit the tree with it's back end and flipped over... never ride with your arm out the window...
--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
<At least the Porsche owners weren't losing their left arms as well, from the book, most Corvairs owners lost a arm after the car spun, hit the tree with it's back end and flipped over... never ride with your arm out the window...>
On that topic...I pulled this girl from her brand new MR2 that she had flipped into a drainage ditch in Maryland. The only thing I took away from that accident was how badly her left arm was broken. The car repeatedly crushed it as it rolled.
wrote:

if
most
it
have
this
handling
any
wanted
I
first
Corvairs
change,
the
were.
the
with
window...
--
> Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
> http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I'm not really sure that applys.
The Porsche engine sits just slightly off the rear box member, as does the GM. The weight is lower on the GM than it is on the 930 turbo w/ AC. So, the "Additional Weight Further Back" doesn't make any sense.
I remember a post regarding the occilation of weight mounted higher in the chassis, and I found it interesting as a theory, however, when I drove this car, it didn't have any more roll than my 930, and I couldn't feel a difference.
I guess what I am looking for is some first hand experience living with these cars. I don't doubt that it is the fastest Porsche I have ever been in. But I want to know if anyone drives one of these regularly. I have heard from a lot of people who have unfinished ones, but no one so far who has a completed car that they have lived with for a while.
Earl
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

ya know, there may be a good reason for that...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Yeah, that is a fear, but I chalk that one up to general sloth and lack of competence.
Earl
snipped-for-privacy@ohatzhapu.bet (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote in wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

well, it couldn't possibly be because it's not a very good idea in the first place.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Some of the greatest inventions known to man didn't seem to be good ideas.
I don't really know. I rode in one, it was faster than HE** and handled like my 930, so I am having problems with all the decenting opinions I have heard in the past. I guess it would be nice to get some real data on what the actual problems beyond asthetics might be.
I am willing to be educated from a engineering standpoint if there are any real problems, otherwise I might buy this sucker and start embarassing some twin turbo owners at the track.
Earl
snipped-for-privacy@ohatzhapu.bet (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote in wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
It was fast as hell, I mean "HE**," ;) and it handled fine, so what's the problem? The main problem with that kind of power is that it can wear parts out faster if you constantly put your foot into it. But too much power is a good problem to have.
Big Earl wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Obviously, a lot more than some guys that are posting here lately.
-- Jack

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
That's like saying if your Porsche doesn't have a CD player, scrap it and buy something else with a CD player.
I think that enhancements that make a car do what it was designed to do only faster or better are wonderful. I have never liked people who lower trucks so that they can't haul things, or modify a sports car to be a low- rider so it won't handle well. That doesn't make sense to me. But if ANY modification you make can make it faster, handle better, or in any other way superior at the purpose it was designed for, then that is a modification worth doing.
I guess no one really has any sort of answer to the question I originally asked. I guess the car I rode in is the ONLY working Porsche V8 conversion in the world. I should probably buy it just for the rarity.
Earl

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
<That's like saying if your Porsche doesn't have a CD player, scrap it and buy something else with a CD player.>
OK Earl, you pretty much make sense around here, but, the above statement is so far off, it is silly.
<I think that enhancements that make a car do what it was designed to do only faster or better are wonderful.>
Agree completely...except...nobody has proven yet that a conversion to a company who is famous for poor reliability and poor quality is for the better.
< But if ANY modification>
Once again, at what cost? I firmly believe that quality is an issue.
<you make can make it faster, handle better, or in any other way superior at the purpose it was designed for, then that is a modification worth doing.>
See above. One year of speed over 10 years of service is simply not worth it.
<I guess no one really has any sort of answer to the question I originally asked.>
I understand there is a Yahoo forum that would help you on this issue.
<I guess the car I rode in is the ONLY working Porsche V8 conversion in the world. I should probably buy it just for the rarity.>
Possibly...it's your money. I am sure someone has poured a lot of money into a good conversion, it's just I have yet to see or hear about one.
Good Luck...Devs.
P.S. I went for a ride in a "proper" 914-6 blueprinted and modified rebuild. Freakin' scary...
Earl

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Devils944 wrote:

Yeah, right, now every Chevy V8 ever made is unreliable and of poor quality. Gimme a break. A stock GM V8 is pretty darn good for being in cars that cost half as much as a Porsche. A Chevy V8 can be a monster, both in power and in longevity. Basically NO other common engine can touch an aftermarket-built Chevy V8. The aftermarket of parts is simply too huge, and you can build it with whatever parts you want with whatever budget you want.
When someone can't fix the head on their 924 for less than 2k and so they put a 200hp Chevy V6 in instead, then I say good because that's one less 924 that would have otherwise seen the junkyard.

Spoken by someone who actually questioned if a Chevy V8 could really put out 600hp.
Earl, you'll find more on the subject on the Rennlist. Talking about it here is a waste of time, as you can see from Devils944's ridiculous comments about Chevy V8's above.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
<Earl, you'll find more on the subject on the Rennlist.>
Yes you will...it gets about as much positive response as here!
<Earl, you'll find more on the subject on the Rennlist.> Talking about it here is a waste of time, as you can see from Devils944's ridiculous comments about Chevy V8's above.>
Hey, welcome back Mr. Bullshit. I see the 911 group laughed you out of there...for those of you who missed it he was explaining to the 911 group how they should make sure the TIMING BELTS on their 911's have been checked. Timing belts, Brad?
This of course with a few of the other gems...
There was of course the 2.5 liter 1989 944. Why don't you expound on this one professor?
and lest we forget...Brad blathering on about the "rare" 3.0 liter engine of the 944/968 series. I guess 19,232 units produced is "rare" to our resident know nothing.
Hey Brad...maybe you can help someone find a water pump for their 911SC or maybe even a carb for their 944!
<Spoken by someone who actually questioned if a Chevy V8 could really put out 600hp.>
Still waiting for you to prove it. You talk out of your ass and then expect us to take it as fact...I have searched and searched Rennlist for your name or post. I have even tried to find this Chevy V-6 conversion you are speaking of...can't seem to find it...no surprise there.
<both in power and in longevity>
Prove this or shut the fuck up...your trolling is getting tiresome. All talk, no proof.
Move along now loser!

worth
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Devils944 wrote:

As usual, you lie, and anyone can check dejanews for your lie. A guy asked about maintenance on "a car," and I mentioned this and that and timing belts and things "depending on model." Despite his posting in a 911 ng, he never said what car he had. But, as usual, you're a moron and an idiot who has nothing better to do than try to make yourself look good by lying. You truly are a worthless human being.

Try to find one compared to a 2.5 and tell me if they're not "rare."

Prove what, that a Chevy V8 can make 600hp? Go ahead, question that a Chevy V8 can make 600hp. I dare you. Seriously, I DARE YOU. You will become the biggest fool the internet has ever known. I might even have to crosspost it to the Camaro ng because you suck so bad and are such a mindless loser. Come on, I DARE YOU to say it. If you wimp out on this one, everyone will know you are a big-mouth know-nothing.
And, dumbfuck, email snipped-for-privacy@newtekdata.com and ask him all about his Chevy V6 924 (and now Grand National turbo V6) which cost him the same as fixing the stock head would have cost. I thought you said you didn't care about conversions? Shut the fuck up already about conversions if you don't care.

lol... I don't need to prove anything. If you can't see a decently-built Chevy V8 is at least equal to a stock Porsche engine in both power and reliabilty, then you're a moron. Show me a Porsche engine that can make as much reliable power (including maintenance costs) as a Chevy V8 can. Face it, despite how good a Porsche engine may be, it simply can't compete with the largest engine aftermarket on Earth that's been around for 50 years. NO engine can compete with a Chevy V8 as far as that goes.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Brad wrote:

Our personal experience with Chevrolet has been they're junk. Grandfather's Suburban with a 454 went 20K miles, needed a rebuild and never ran decently after that - less mileage and power.
Father has been through 3 454 motors in his motorhome in 48K miles. After the dealer replaced the original with a rebuilt, they finally put in a third that was new and that one has only stranded them once. Whether these vehicles were a lousy product or the incompetency of Mr. Goodwrench isn't clear, but standing by the side of the road waiting for tows was crystal clear.
And before I got paid to ride herd on a fleet of helicopters I got paid to ride herd on a fleet of 900+ vehicles ranging from 45 passenger buses to mid-size sedans. We had a mixed bag in the mid and full size sedans: Chevrolet, Olds and Ford mid-sized, Chevrolet and Ford full-sized. We polled the mechanics on which cars were the most labor intensive and in the mid-sized it was the Olds, followed by the Chevrolet and then the Fords. In the full size it was the Chevrolet. We ended up standardizing the fleet with Fords and that's still being done over a decade later.
Sorry, the words Chevrolet and quality have never collided in my world.....
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Notice where I said "aftermarket." Stock, they can be pretty good, depending on model. Aftermarket-built, other engines have no chance for the price. I'm not even really "a V8 guy" but can admit this.
Jim Keenan wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Brad wrote:

Maybe you buy a car so you can toss the stock motor and replace it with an "aftermaket" one, but I expect the one from the factory to perform in the first place...............

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Brad wrote:

I did notice where you said "now every Chevy V8 ever made is unreliable and of poor quality". Our experience has been that the Chevy V8s we've had the misfortune to own HAVE been of poor quality and on the unrelaible side as well. Maybe you buy a car so you can toss the stock motor and replace it with an "aftermarket" one, but I expect the factory motor to perform.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jim Keenan wrote:

The stock Porsche motors don't perform at the level some people want, so those have to be tossed sometimes, too. When I consider Chevy swaps, though, yeah, you can just toss a stock engine in there, but where things really shine is when the intent from the start is to make some halfway-serious power out of the car, and building up a Chevy V8, or simply buying one someone else put together, is when the benefits of a Chevy swap really come into play.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Jack D. Russell, Sr." wrote:

What theories might those be? That a Chevy V8 can make a ton of power for cheap? Speak up and tell me what theories you refer to. Speaking the truth is not trolling.
Me, I'm still waiting for Devils944 or someone as smart as yourself to tell me how to get even 300hp out of a 924 or non-turbo 944 without an engine swap. Come on, tell me how to get even a measly 300hp out of them and I'll shut up about engine swaps since none would be needed then. Devils944 is silent on the subject because he's a moron who likes to talk big but can't back it up. How about you?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.