1 millionth Prius sold in the USA

Your image is very colorful but, as one who spent a lot of miles in vw beetles, I can assure you that the battery was protected from heavy passengers and worn rear seat springs and heavy passengers never 'sparked' the conversation.

My assertion was that the Prius auxilliary battery wouldn't require replacement in 100k miles while a non-hybrid battery typically would. My reason was that the Prius auxilliary battery was not used for starting the Prius motor and so was not subject to the heavy current draw that starting requires while the non-hybrid battery was used for starting the non-hybrid motor, was subject to the heavy current draw (100 amps) that starting a motor entails, and was therefore in a discharged state more often which shortens the battery life.

The crux of the whole discussion is that the hybrid Prius has lower overall maintenance and repair costs than a non-hybrid vehicle, including the battery replacement cost, although I concede that the Prius auxilliary battery replacement cost is quite high at $112. As I noted, though, I would expect the auxilliary battery replacement cost to go down if replacement of it begins to be needed in large numbers and it is stocked as a replacement part at the national auto parts chains like CarQuest, O'Reilly, NAPA, etc. My personal experience with my Prius for

100k miles is that I have had to replace the oil and filter every 5k miles, change the coolant, change the air filter twice, and change the cabin air filter twice. That's it in 100k miles of typical driving over a 5-year period. And the Prius is performing as well as the day I bought it. Perhaps that's the reason that so many taxi cabs are Priuses, that used Prius values hold up so well, that new Priuses are in very short supply, and that the 1 millionth Prius was sold in the USA.

And you base that assertion on what?

That it doesn't run a starter motor?

The fact that it doesn't run a starter motor is exactly why Toyota used a small battery. The requirements of the battery determine its size. Toyota did not use a standard 12v battery because they didn't need to spend the money or space or weight on that. So, they used exactly as light and small a battery as they could get away with to do the bare minimum that it needs to do.

Capacity wise, it's sized and rated to have a lifetime about as long as the standard 12v battery that runs a starter motor. No more, no less. Toyota spent no money on making that part of the car be any "better" than any other car. The expense is, overall, the same.

Let's go back to your assertion: is it based on fact, or is it based on you wishing things to be so?

And as I pointed out, most if not all of your argument was pulled out of thin air because you really, really want to believe things to be so even though real world facts say otherwise.

You really, really want to rationalize your Prius purchase on the basis of facts not in evidence. Therefore, you invent the facts and put them into "evidence" and hope that people believe you.

The only people who would believe you are idiots and morons.

Use it for business, then take standard mileage deduction at tax time. A brand new Prius never breaks (well, OK, I personally had not problem with two of mine - someone else's experience may differ), Toyota has 5000 miles oil change intervals, breaks never wear off, etc. - the car is VERY cheap to operate for the first two-three years at least. If you drive it for business enough miles (20K+/yr), you'll have your gas cost/maintenance difference pay for difference between hybrid/ICE-only car in one or two tax years. After that any savings on gas that Prius provides is all your net positive, you can enjoy it knowing you didn't pay too much for it.

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Dodge Caliber makes a good size/utility comparison to Prius as another "Small Wagon". Although Caliber has much less cargo volume (16 vs 21 cu.ft.) and slightly more passenger volume (96 vs. 94 cu. ft.), I think people would be buying those two for the same purposes.

Enter fuel consumption.

Dodge Caliber - 24/32 City/Hwy Toyota Prius 3rd gen - 51/48 (EPA) Toyota Prius 2nd gen - 48/45 - my own figures

If all you do is drive on highways (which you don't but it's the worst case) the difference is at least 13 MPG. In other words you're saving at least 9 gallons of gas per each 1000 miles driven or, at current prices, at least $33.75 per thousand miles driven.

Drive enough miles per year and you won't even need to think about saving Earth to buy a Prius - it just makes economic sense.

And then, of course, try to get a CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) on a Caliber - my own personal favorite feature of the Prius. You just can't. By the time you get down the list of pros and cons, you find yourself at Toyota's sales lot.

Anyway, Toyota did something right some 15+ years ago. Instead of feverishly protecting their current interests (which any big corporation does by default) they decided to find out how to combine their interests and that of their prospective customers. What a novel idea! I wonder if at the time they actually believed it would work...

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That's what I do.

A colleague of mine went the route of buying a diesel VW. Same idea.

Actually, we get reimbursed partially, so that's even better. The remainder, we deduct from our taxes.

I have Prius, pay the bills, and know what it costs to run.

Virtually all of the maintenance items he claimed didn't exist on the Prius do in fact exist at the same rate as on any other car that uses gasoline as its sole source of energy, has four wheels, and has a steering wheel.

He pulled his shit out of thin air because he really, really wants to believe in the easter bunny.

Well, who cares about that. Besides, the Prius isn't an electric car; while it can drive for very short distances without running the gasoline engine, 99.9% of its life it is running the gasoline engine.

I have a Prius and I have had a lot of non-hybrid cars over the years so I have a good idea of what it costs to maintain a vehicle, Prius or no. The fact is that brake relining, transmission servicing, starter motor replacement, alternator replacement, timing belt replacement, serpentine belt replacement, and battery replacement are not required on a Prius in the first 100K miles while on a non-hybrid car most or all of those things are. Some of those don't exist on a Prius (starter, transmission, starter, alternator, timing belt) while others wear at a much slower rate and so are not needed until later (brakes, battery). Of course, the Prius has things that don't exist on a non-hybrid vehicle (hi-volt battery, motor-generators, PSD, inverter) and those may require maintenance and repair further down the road but thus far Priuses are relatively low-maintenance high-reliability vehicles. There is starting to be some experience with people running Priuses up to high mileage

300,000 levels and the Prius' reputation appears to remain untarnished. You know, Shagnasty, it was not that long ago that all cars were in the junkyard before they reached 100,000 miles. Now, it is possible to reach 200,000 miles with most cars if they are carefully maintained but the owner will spend significant amounts of money on repairs to reach that 200k mark. Cars in general have greater longevity now because of 1) much better motor oils, 2) computerized engine controls, 3) fuel injection, 4) better alloys and materials in mass production, 5) computer-controlled manufacturing tolerances and 6) computer-aided improvements in design. Toyota uses all of those with the Prius and also uses the hybrid technology to reduce the number of moving parts and simplify the operation and function. They should be commended for attempting to raise the bar for reliability even further and make the idea of hybrid vehicles a mainstream one. The Prius has thus far done extremely well for a completely new type of vehicle in mass production for only 10 years. Even the earliest Priuses have done pretty good thus far.

So does the rest of the world.

And the rest of the world knows that most of the "the Prius is better because it requires no maintenance compared to other cars that require ALL THIS maintenance" list is bullshit.

Bullshit.

Starter motor needs replaced inside 100K miles? Bullshit.

Alternator? Bullshit.

Transmission "servicing"? In what way? Fluid replacement? A simple drain and fill? Yeah--so what? It's noted by Prius owners to be "a good idea, even though Toyota didn't specify it" regardless.

Timing belt replacement? Inside 100K miles? Absolute bullshit.

Serpentine belt replacement? Bullshit.

Battery replacement? Bullshit.

Your list is complete and utter bullshit, pulled out of thin air by someone who either doesn't know shit about modern cars, or by someone who just wants to say anything he can--regardless of truth--to try to justify and rationalize his purchase of (and obsession towards) a Prius.