1 millionth Prius sold in the USA

Your image is very colorful but, as one who spent a lot of miles in vw beetles, I can assure you that the battery was protected from heavy passengers and worn rear seat springs and heavy passengers never 'sparked' the conversation.

My assertion was that the Prius auxilliary battery wouldn't require replacement in 100k miles while a non-hybrid battery typically would. My reason was that the Prius auxilliary battery was not used for starting the Prius motor and so was not subject to the heavy current draw that starting requires while the non-hybrid battery was used for starting the non-hybrid motor, was subject to the heavy current draw (100 amps) that starting a motor entails, and was therefore in a discharged state more often which shortens the battery life.

The crux of the whole discussion is that the hybrid Prius has lower overall maintenance and repair costs than a non-hybrid vehicle, including the battery replacement cost, although I concede that the Prius auxilliary battery replacement cost is quite high at $112. As I noted, though, I would expect the auxilliary battery replacement cost to go down if replacement of it begins to be needed in large numbers and it is stocked as a replacement part at the national auto parts chains like CarQuest, O'Reilly, NAPA, etc. My personal experience with my Prius for

And you base that assertion on what?

That it doesn't run a starter motor?

The fact that it doesn't run a starter motor is exactly why Toyota used a small battery. The requirements of the battery determine its size. Toyota did not use a standard 12v battery because they didn't need to spend the money or space or weight on that. So, they used exactly as light and small a battery as they could get away with to do the bare minimum that it needs to do.

Capacity wise, it's sized and rated to have a lifetime about as long as the standard 12v battery that runs a starter motor. No more, no less. Toyota spent no money on making that part of the car be any "better" than any other car. The expense is, overall, the same.

Let's go back to your assertion: is it based on fact, or is it based on you wishing things to be so?

And as I pointed out, most if not all of your argument was pulled out of thin air because you really, really want to believe things to be so even though real world facts say otherwise.

You really, really want to rationalize your Prius purchase on the basis of facts not in evidence. Therefore, you invent the facts and put them into "evidence" and hope that people believe you.

The only people who would believe you are idiots and morons.

Use it for business, then take standard mileage deduction at tax time. A brand new Prius never breaks (well, OK, I personally had not problem with two of mine - someone else's experience may differ), Toyota has 5000 miles oil change intervals, breaks never wear off, etc. - the car is VERY cheap to operate for the first two-three years at least. If you drive it for business enough miles (20K+/yr), you'll have your gas cost/maintenance difference pay for difference between hybrid/ICE-only car in one or two tax years. After that any savings on gas that Prius provides is all your net positive, you can enjoy it knowing you didn't pay too much for it.

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Dodge Caliber makes a good size/utility comparison to Prius as another "Small Wagon". Although Caliber has much less cargo volume (16 vs 21 cu.ft.) and slightly more passenger volume (96 vs. 94 cu. ft.), I think people would be buying those two for the same purposes.

Enter fuel consumption.

Dodge Caliber - 24/32 City/Hwy Toyota Prius 3rd gen - 51/48 (EPA) Toyota Prius 2nd gen - 48/45 - my own figures

If all you do is drive on highways (which you don't but it's the worst case) the difference is at least 13 MPG. In other words you're saving at least 9 gallons of gas per each 1000 miles driven or, at current prices, at least $33.75 per thousand miles driven.

Drive enough miles per year and you won't even need to think about saving Earth to buy a Prius - it just makes economic sense.

And then, of course, try to get a CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) on a Caliber - my own personal favorite feature of the Prius. You just can't. By the time you get down the list of pros and cons, you find yourself at Toyota's sales lot.

Anyway, Toyota did something right some 15+ years ago. Instead of feverishly protecting their current interests (which any big corporation does by default) they decided to find out how to combine their interests and that of their prospective customers. What a novel idea! I wonder if at the time they actually believed it would work...

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That's what I do.

A colleague of mine went the route of buying a diesel VW. Same idea.

Actually, we get reimbursed partially, so that's even better. The remainder, we deduct from our taxes.

On Apr 14, 4:47 pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote: . . .

It is a $30 battery that works in the Prius because as you'd already pointed out, there are just a few relays and switches to close. The battery does not have to handle the 100s of amps needed to turnover an engine starter.

Bob Wilson

You're mostly right but it is a little more than appearance. There is a measurable, cold weather effect when the older Type T-IV ages. It is one reason why I'm running a long term study of Type WS, the new oil.

Based upon multiple oil samples my recommendation is:

Bob Wilson

On Apr 16, 12:37 pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote: . . .

When Toyota owns the car, they can use their choice in battery. When someone else owns it, they choose the battery.

I prefer a $200, after market battery with a 10 year life designed for rugged operation but I don't fault anyone for making a different choice and there are a large array of options including motorcycle and lawn tractor batteries. If it fits and works, no problem.

Bob Wilson

Yeap, he keeps believing what you seem to call, "his lying eyes." We have Prius, pay the bills and know what it costs to run. So far, I'm still eating out and driving where ever I want without having to decide if I have to dip into lunch money to be able to drive home.

But the other part is what can't be bought with a regular gas car ... driving in quiet, electric power. It just doesn't exist in ordinary gas and diesel cars and lets us enjoy Spring sounds as we cruse through the neighborhood.

Bob Wilson

Consumer Reports, Spring 2011, Ratings & Pricing Best & Worst Vehicles

"This small four-door hatchback has a raised seating position similar to that of a small SUV. Interior fit and finish is subpar and the styling impedes visibility, but there are some clever interior storage features. The ride is sound but unexceptional, and handling is lackluster but ultimately secure. The continuously variable transmission works well but the version we tested with the 2.0-liter engine lacked punch, and fuel economy wasn't impressive. Both engines are noisy. There are better hatchbacks available." pp. 57-58.

Like the Prius, a superior hatchback, which unlike the Caliber, is quiet, significantly quieter, and has twice the city mileage. Roughly

Bob Wilson

I'm getting $.50/mile for every business mile which means two trips to the work site and I've paid for my gas for the week.

Bob Wilson

I have Prius, pay the bills, and know what it costs to run.

Virtually all of the maintenance items he claimed didn't exist on the Prius do in fact exist at the same rate as on any other car that uses gasoline as its sole source of energy, has four wheels, and has a steering wheel.

He pulled his s*it out of thin air because he really, really wants to believe in the easter bunny.

Well, who cares about that. Besides, the Prius isn't an electric car; while it can drive for very short distances without running the gasoline engine, 99.9% of its life it is running the gasoline engine.

I have a Prius and I have had a lot of non-hybrid cars over the years so I have a good idea of what it costs to maintain a vehicle, Prius or no. The fact is that brake relining, transmission servicing, starter motor replacement, alternator replacement, timing belt replacement, serpentine belt replacement, and battery replacement are not required on a Prius in the first 100K miles while on a non-hybrid car most or all of those things are. Some of those don't exist on a Prius (starter, transmission, starter, alternator, timing belt) while others wear at a much slower rate and so are not needed until later (brakes, battery). Of course, the Prius has things that don't exist on a non-hybrid vehicle (hi-volt battery, motor-generators, PSD, inverter) and those may require maintenance and repair further down the road but thus far Priuses are relatively low-maintenance high-reliability vehicles. There is starting to be some experience with people running Priuses up to high mileage

So does the rest of the world.

And the rest of the world knows that most of the "the Prius is better because it requires no maintenance compared to other cars that require ALL THIS maintenance" list is bullshit.

Bullshit.

Starter motor needs replaced inside 100K miles? Bullshit.

Alternator? Bullshit.

Transmission "servicing"? In what way? Fluid replacement? A simple drain and fill? Yeah--so what? It's noted by Prius owners to be "a good idea, even though Toyota didn't specify it" regardless.

Timing belt replacement? Inside 100K miles? Absolute bullshit.

Serpentine belt replacement? Bullshit.

Battery replacement? Bullshit.

Your list is complete and utter bullshit, pulled out of thin air by someone who either doesn't know s*it about modern cars, or by someone who just wants to say anything he can--regardless of truth--to try to justify and rationalize his purchase of (and obsession towards) a Prius.

On Apr 21, 6:14 am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote: . . .

Excellent! What model? How many years? Average miles per year?

Brakes?

Just his 'lying eyes' But then we have some other "lying eyes:"

So where is your ordinary vehicle maintenance cost per mile?

Well here is a source:

So on one hand, we have multiple Prius in accurate fleet studies showing about "$0.02/mile" and two other sources reporting at least twice that average or ordinary cars. But in any population of vehicles there will be exceptions and 'outlyers' so what are your data?

Bob Wilson

It is wonderful in my neighborhood. I can listen to the birds, the insects and the sounds of children playing. Quiet is also called being a good neighbor.

Then at speeds above 20 mph, the tire and air noise blankets the outside sounds and on the highway, we're back in normal mode. I don't really notice the engine except under high power modes ... passing, steep grades, and on-ramps. But in Europe, they do highway noise testing and the Prius is in the quietest 10%.

Bob Wilson